Thoughts on a 2000 C2 PPI report....
10-06-2016, 11:41 PM
#62
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Opinions will vary. Personally I'm of the camp that I'd rather have the original IMSB and hopefully even couple-of-month-old oil when the PPI is done. Or... the IMSB was done a while ago but then if the car had clean oil, I wouldn't hesitate, I would walk, no run, for the exit.
It seems nice to have it "all taken care of" and cheaper. The problem is that sometimes the IMSB was done, or even a just done oil service, to hide the already failing engine.
996s are great and dependable cars but you need to exercise tough love when buying one. Believe it or not there are a few people that would gladly dump there "about-to-be-a-20k-problem on someone else. Most of the 996s will run 100ks of miles without any major problems; your mission--find and buy one.
It seems nice to have it "all taken care of" and cheaper. The problem is that sometimes the IMSB was done, or even a just done oil service, to hide the already failing engine.
996s are great and dependable cars but you need to exercise tough love when buying one. Believe it or not there are a few people that would gladly dump there "about-to-be-a-20k-problem on someone else. Most of the 996s will run 100ks of miles without any major problems; your mission--find and buy one.
10-07-2016, 12:19 AM
#63
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Just had a 45min. conversation with the gentlemen selling the c4s.
He is a former Porsche service manager with years of time working on pcars. All recent work was done by the Porsche dealer and is under warranty. The car was somewhat neglected by its last owner, so this guy went ahead and preemptively replaced ims/rms, and then replaced all the other parts listed totaling over 13k. Has had no paintwork, but has a small unnoticeable mark on the rear bumper, and at some point in time he said the front bumper was replaced, but again my understanding is no body damage or paint work has ever been done.
He has all his records, but prior to his ownership it's spotty. No leaks. He said no codes are on. The IMS and RMS replacement with LN Engineering bearing.
He is a former Porsche service manager with years of time working on pcars. All recent work was done by the Porsche dealer and is under warranty. The car was somewhat neglected by its last owner, so this guy went ahead and preemptively replaced ims/rms, and then replaced all the other parts listed totaling over 13k. Has had no paintwork, but has a small unnoticeable mark on the rear bumper, and at some point in time he said the front bumper was replaced, but again my understanding is no body damage or paint work has ever been done.
He has all his records, but prior to his ownership it's spotty. No leaks. He said no codes are on. The IMS and RMS replacement with LN Engineering bearing.
It also sounds like this is a flipper car done by someone who really knows whats up with these... not a bad scenario IMHO.
If there is a recent $13k receipt that comes with the car and warranty is transferrable, in my eyes that basically serves to substantially help re-establish a service history for the car.
I'd ask if he kept the old IMSB. Looks like a good option.
10-07-2016, 12:33 AM
#64
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kalashnikov.....appreciate your thoughts, specifically on the price.
Thanks for your opinion, it matters.
He pointed out the importance of having the car brought back to new shape with the 13k, and the fact the work was still under warranty. I told him this is going to be my low mileage daily driver, and that's what he said this car has been set up for. Also says that brake pads and rotors are the only thing to expect to potentially replace outside of the unforeseen for at least 10-20k miles.
I really like the look, and upgraded performance of the c4s as well the more I learn about them.
Sounds promising! Price isn't too out of line if all of this is true...
It also sounds like this is a flipper car done by someone who really knows whats up with these... not a bad scenario IMHO.
If there is a recent $13k receipt that comes with the car and warranty is transferrable, in my eyes that basically serves to substantially help re-establish a service history for the car.
I'd ask if he kept the old IMSB. Looks like a good option.
It also sounds like this is a flipper car done by someone who really knows whats up with these... not a bad scenario IMHO.
If there is a recent $13k receipt that comes with the car and warranty is transferrable, in my eyes that basically serves to substantially help re-establish a service history for the car.
I'd ask if he kept the old IMSB. Looks like a good option.
He pointed out the importance of having the car brought back to new shape with the 13k, and the fact the work was still under warranty. I told him this is going to be my low mileage daily driver, and that's what he said this car has been set up for. Also says that brake pads and rotors are the only thing to expect to potentially replace outside of the unforeseen for at least 10-20k miles.
I really like the look, and upgraded performance of the c4s as well the more I learn about them.
10-07-2016, 01:08 AM
#65
Rennlist Member
Just had a 45min. conversation with the gentlemen selling the c4s.
He is a former Porsche service manager with years of time working on pcars. All recent work was done by the Porsche dealer and is under warranty. The car was somewhat neglected by its last owner, so this guy went ahead and preemptively replaced ims/rms, and then replaced all the other parts listed totaling over 13k. Has had no paintwork, but has a small unnoticeable mark on the rear bumper, and at some point in time he said the front bumper was replaced, but again my understanding is no body damage or paint work has ever been done.
He has all his records, but prior to his ownership it's spotty. No leaks. He said no codes are on. The IMS and RMS replacement with LN Engineering bearing.
He is a former Porsche service manager with years of time working on pcars. All recent work was done by the Porsche dealer and is under warranty. The car was somewhat neglected by its last owner, so this guy went ahead and preemptively replaced ims/rms, and then replaced all the other parts listed totaling over 13k. Has had no paintwork, but has a small unnoticeable mark on the rear bumper, and at some point in time he said the front bumper was replaced, but again my understanding is no body damage or paint work has ever been done.
He has all his records, but prior to his ownership it's spotty. No leaks. He said no codes are on. The IMS and RMS replacement with LN Engineering bearing.
The problem with low mileage cars is that things die from inactivity. The bushings, the seals in the shocks, all the rubber stuff just dies...like the rubber and bearing in the cooling system. Also gaskets get dry and brittle and then when someone start driving the car a lot, they begin to break up and leak. When were the brakes last flushed? Water in the brake system begins to cause more problems there. That's why you are supposed to flush the fluid ever two years no matter the miles. And engine oil breaks down in engines that just sit and it begins to eat at the metal.
Do not think that a low mileage car is somehow in better condition than a higher mileage car. Find a car that is already someone's daily driver and has stack of service history...years of service history. Then sit down and read each and every bill of service. And when it comes to the IMS bearing, who replaced it is maybe even more important than replacing it. This car has a bunch of recent bills but doesn't answer the question...what still needs to be done?
10-07-2016, 01:22 AM
#66
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So he spent $13k servicing the car and he's asking $25k? So if he is doing this out of a religious love of Porsches and not making a dime on it, he had to have bought the car for $12k...or less if he is making $1k...$2k...$3k. So maybe he bought the car for...$9k? And if he's a Porsche service he got a lot of stuff for cost...so is that $13k in repairs the retail or wholesale price?
The problem with low mileage cars is that things die from inactivity. The bushings, the seals in the shocks, all the rubber stuff just dies...like the rubber and bearing in the cooling system. Also gaskets get dry and brittle and then when someone start driving the car a lot, they begin to break up and leak. When were the brakes last flushed? Water in the brake system begins to cause more problems there. That's why you are supposed to flush the fluid ever two years no matter the miles. And engine oil breaks down in engines that just sit and it begins to eat at the metal.
Do not think that a low mileage car is somehow in better condition than a higher mileage car. Find a car that is already someone's daily driver and has stack of service history. Then sit down and read each and every bill of service. And when it comes to the IMS bearing, who replaced it is maybe even more important than replacing it
The problem with low mileage cars is that things die from inactivity. The bushings, the seals in the shocks, all the rubber stuff just dies...like the rubber and bearing in the cooling system. Also gaskets get dry and brittle and then when someone start driving the car a lot, they begin to break up and leak. When were the brakes last flushed? Water in the brake system begins to cause more problems there. That's why you are supposed to flush the fluid ever two years no matter the miles. And engine oil breaks down in engines that just sit and it begins to eat at the metal.
Do not think that a low mileage car is somehow in better condition than a higher mileage car. Find a car that is already someone's daily driver and has stack of service history. Then sit down and read each and every bill of service. And when it comes to the IMS bearing, who replaced it is maybe even more important than replacing it
He is asking $29,900, and he was more than honest with how much he acquired it for originally, and then the obvious 13k he put into it.
10-07-2016, 11:42 AM
#67
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At this point things are sounding pretty good, and if you're really considering that car then I'd consider taking it to the next step and get the car to the Pcar dealer or a good indy, along with the seller... Have them change the oil and inspect for any metal or plastic bits in the seller. If there's some plastic, it could easily have been left over from the old chain tensioners, not a big deal... but if there's any metal shavings then you may want to take serious pause. If there's 3k miles on that oil (dating back to the work performed) and IF there was IMSB failure previously then you will more than likely see some metallic residue in oil/filter.
Also, look on the bit 13k receipt to see if "ultrasonic" cleaning is a line item... That would indicate someone went to extra lengths to rid the engine of metallic debris. If you go to the P-car dealer who did the work, ask who did the IMSB swap and how the bearing looked when it came out...
I will say this... For $30k, you are approaching 997 prices in my neck of the woods (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/ctd/5813830951.html), but not with all of that "feel good preventative maintenance" already done for you.
A good point for the mkII 996 S cars, I do think they will ultimately be much more collectible down the road. IMHO, the premium over narrow body cars is somewhat justifiable.
Before you make offer, make it clear you are willing to travel to find the right car... But if the oil looks good, car drives as it should and PPI checks out otherwise... time to start considering making the guy an offer.
Good luck! I hope all goes well for you!
Also, look on the bit 13k receipt to see if "ultrasonic" cleaning is a line item... That would indicate someone went to extra lengths to rid the engine of metallic debris. If you go to the P-car dealer who did the work, ask who did the IMSB swap and how the bearing looked when it came out...
I will say this... For $30k, you are approaching 997 prices in my neck of the woods (http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/ctd/5813830951.html), but not with all of that "feel good preventative maintenance" already done for you.
A good point for the mkII 996 S cars, I do think they will ultimately be much more collectible down the road. IMHO, the premium over narrow body cars is somewhat justifiable.
Before you make offer, make it clear you are willing to travel to find the right car... But if the oil looks good, car drives as it should and PPI checks out otherwise... time to start considering making the guy an offer.
Good luck! I hope all goes well for you!
10-07-2016, 12:22 PM
#68
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jaetee...you're the man. Truly excellent words of advice.
I've heard we've about reached the bottom on 996 prices, or that like you said, prices are going to go up in a few years.
The more I learn about the C4S, the more I think that's what I really want. I like the idea of the upgrades suspension, and brakes, and I also like the different body style too.
Again great, detailed stuff to look for. Exactly what I need to know!
I've heard we've about reached the bottom on 996 prices, or that like you said, prices are going to go up in a few years.
The more I learn about the C4S, the more I think that's what I really want. I like the idea of the upgrades suspension, and brakes, and I also like the different body style too.
Again great, detailed stuff to look for. Exactly what I need to know!
10-07-2016, 12:48 PM
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A few more C4Ss I'm going to see in Atlanta tom.
This one is more promising. 2004 C4S with 58k on it for $30k. Clean carfax with lots of service reports, but dealer says he has nothing further to add in that department. Also dealer says no IMS/RMS work done.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/ctd/5779634363.html
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...AA29974S621017
Next one is a 2003 C4S with 85k on it for $25k. Haven't call yet about it, but the carfax show little service reports and lots of owners(5 of them).
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...40197572&Log=0
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...&partner=ATD_W
This one is more promising. 2004 C4S with 58k on it for $30k. Clean carfax with lots of service reports, but dealer says he has nothing further to add in that department. Also dealer says no IMS/RMS work done.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/wat/ctd/5779634363.html
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...AA29974S621017
Next one is a 2003 C4S with 85k on it for $25k. Haven't call yet about it, but the carfax show little service reports and lots of owners(5 of them).
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...40197572&Log=0
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...&partner=ATD_W
10-07-2016, 09:55 PM
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Any truth to the statement that Porsche doesn't recommend servicing the IMS/RMS on 03s, and 04 996s until 80-90k miles?
Also was told that the later 03/04 models suffered less problems overall with the IMS than earlier models which kinda goes against what I've read on here.
Anyone in the ATL wanna inspect a car with me tomorrow? If you got qualifications I'd be happy to pay for your time. Also I read on here Eurotechatlanta is GTG as far a PPIs go in the area....anyone confirm this or have a good PPI locale in the ATL.
Thanks guys as usual
Also was told that the later 03/04 models suffered less problems overall with the IMS than earlier models which kinda goes against what I've read on here.
Anyone in the ATL wanna inspect a car with me tomorrow? If you got qualifications I'd be happy to pay for your time. Also I read on here Eurotechatlanta is GTG as far a PPIs go in the area....anyone confirm this or have a good PPI locale in the ATL.
Thanks guys as usual
10-07-2016, 11:04 PM
#72
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If you can wait another week, here's a good auction for you to enjoy. Well sorted cars on B.A.T. tend to bring a premium. Lots of fun cars to reminisce over or learn about.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-porsche-911-c4s/
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/2002-porsche-911-c4s/
10-08-2016, 05:15 PM
#75
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Don't believe it. The highest failure rate is for the smaller diameter single row bearing, which was in the 911 (and Boxster) from approx. MY2000 to MY2005.