Thoughts on a 2000 C2 PPI report....
10-05-2016, 12:45 PM
#31
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Truly excellent stuff gents, and while its heart breaking to read, its the straight medicine I needed, and ask for.......so many thanks to all who are taking take to help. I also have my doubts about how good the PPI was done even though it was performed by a so called pcar expert.
It's official now, I called the dealer and told him I'm walking from the car.
Who's better to tell you whats what than a bunch of passionate 996 owners themselves. I kinda wish I never started down this road though, and never put 50 miles on a 996. The cars kinda sound like a ton of worry, with relative high maintenance costs....but something is definitely alluring about them. Oh well, you live and you learn. Sad day but I'll get over it.
It's official now, I called the dealer and told him I'm walking from the car.
Who's better to tell you whats what than a bunch of passionate 996 owners themselves. I kinda wish I never started down this road though, and never put 50 miles on a 996. The cars kinda sound like a ton of worry, with relative high maintenance costs....but something is definitely alluring about them. Oh well, you live and you learn. Sad day but I'll get over it.
10-05-2016, 02:40 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Think of it this way.
You don't find the right Porsche, the right one finds you.
(Cue Kung Fu flute music.)
You don't find the right Porsche, the right one finds you.
(Cue Kung Fu flute music.)
10-05-2016, 05:50 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I don't know where you are in the Southeast, but here is the kind of car and price point I'd looking around for... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=262412163707
Question one should be regarding the carfax report. Maybe seller will provide it upon request. Could be this car is generally very well maintained and that IMSB has been taken care of already? If shops or dealer are listed in carfax, call them up with the VIN and tell them you're thinking about buying it and ask what info they can provide about the car... You may get nothing, or you may get an avalanche of service history. You don't know if you don't ask!
Then, check with seller if he will let you get a PPI done on the car that includes a good look at the motor oil and filter. A leakdown test will tell you a lot, too...
FYI: You can go on the Porsche Club of America website and find a list of recommended indy shops all over the country and then let the seller who you'd like them to use...
Then, assuming your budget is the $23k you were considering plopping down on your local 911...
If PPI checks out, car is a decent runner and there is no metal present in the oil, buy it.
Then it's time to think about spending another $5-6k on the IMSB/RMS/AOS/Clutch/water pump/plugs/t-stat and chain tensioner pads service. At that mileage, I'd expect to see some brown bits of plastic in the oil. If so, use that to get the price down a bit more. You'll want the tensioner pads done "while you're in there" as the saying around here goes.
By then you'll be right at your $23k budget, but you'll have a sorted car and very solid peace of mind. FWIW, I bought mine for less and had IMSB and the full list above (and then some) done and have no regrets, even though the (dual row) IMSB came out of the car in absolutely perfect condition.
The '99s have more robust dual row bearing, so if the clutch on that car was done recently and there are no leaks from the middle of the tranny/engine casing (indicative of rear main seal leak) you could simply opt to have the IMS Guardian installed (google it) and install the LN spin on filter (to eliminate oil bypass) and just monitor metal in your that way until you do need a clutch. I think that would cost you only around $500.
A word of caution regarding these cars and clutch wear... When I bought mine (had 93k on odo) the clutch felt perfect. So much so that I briefly considered holding off on the major engine service. However, because there was no sign of tools having ever touched the transmission bolts and zero service history with the car, my mechanic and I were both pretty much convinced the original clutch was likely still in my car. Glad I elected to do the full engine out-service to address everything I listed above because when we got the clutch out it was down to scraping the rivets on the pressure plate side, but not yet to that point on the slightly fatter flywheel side. At least I saved myself the expense of adding a flywheel to that long list of parts to be proactively swapped.
So, let's say you can negotiate that car down to $14 or $15k, that gives you up to $8 or $9k budget to do major preventive maintenance and transport the car home, or buy an airline ticket to fly in and drive home.
Question one should be regarding the carfax report. Maybe seller will provide it upon request. Could be this car is generally very well maintained and that IMSB has been taken care of already? If shops or dealer are listed in carfax, call them up with the VIN and tell them you're thinking about buying it and ask what info they can provide about the car... You may get nothing, or you may get an avalanche of service history. You don't know if you don't ask!
Then, check with seller if he will let you get a PPI done on the car that includes a good look at the motor oil and filter. A leakdown test will tell you a lot, too...
FYI: You can go on the Porsche Club of America website and find a list of recommended indy shops all over the country and then let the seller who you'd like them to use...
Then, assuming your budget is the $23k you were considering plopping down on your local 911...
If PPI checks out, car is a decent runner and there is no metal present in the oil, buy it.
Then it's time to think about spending another $5-6k on the IMSB/RMS/AOS/Clutch/water pump/plugs/t-stat and chain tensioner pads service. At that mileage, I'd expect to see some brown bits of plastic in the oil. If so, use that to get the price down a bit more. You'll want the tensioner pads done "while you're in there" as the saying around here goes.
By then you'll be right at your $23k budget, but you'll have a sorted car and very solid peace of mind. FWIW, I bought mine for less and had IMSB and the full list above (and then some) done and have no regrets, even though the (dual row) IMSB came out of the car in absolutely perfect condition.
The '99s have more robust dual row bearing, so if the clutch on that car was done recently and there are no leaks from the middle of the tranny/engine casing (indicative of rear main seal leak) you could simply opt to have the IMS Guardian installed (google it) and install the LN spin on filter (to eliminate oil bypass) and just monitor metal in your that way until you do need a clutch. I think that would cost you only around $500.
A word of caution regarding these cars and clutch wear... When I bought mine (had 93k on odo) the clutch felt perfect. So much so that I briefly considered holding off on the major engine service. However, because there was no sign of tools having ever touched the transmission bolts and zero service history with the car, my mechanic and I were both pretty much convinced the original clutch was likely still in my car. Glad I elected to do the full engine out-service to address everything I listed above because when we got the clutch out it was down to scraping the rivets on the pressure plate side, but not yet to that point on the slightly fatter flywheel side. At least I saved myself the expense of adding a flywheel to that long list of parts to be proactively swapped.
So, let's say you can negotiate that car down to $14 or $15k, that gives you up to $8 or $9k budget to do major preventive maintenance and transport the car home, or buy an airline ticket to fly in and drive home.
10-05-2016, 07:03 PM
#34
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I don't know where you are in the Southeast, but here is the kind of car and price point I'd looking around for... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...m=262412163707
Question one should be regarding the carfax report. Maybe seller will provide it upon request. Could be this car is generally very well maintained and that IMSB has been taken care of already? If shops or dealer are listed in carfax, call them up with the VIN and tell them you're thinking about buying it and ask what info they can provide about the car... You may get nothing, or you may get an avalanche of service history. You don't know if you don't ask!
Then, check with seller if he will let you get a PPI done on the car that includes a good look at the motor oil and filter. A leakdown test will tell you a lot, too...
FYI: You can go on the Porsche Club of America website and find a list of recommended indy shops all over the country and then let the seller who you'd like them to use...
Then, assuming your budget is the $23k you were considering plopping down on your local 911...
If PPI checks out, car is a decent runner and there is no metal present in the oil, buy it.
Then it's time to think about spending another $5-6k on the IMSB/RMS/AOS/Clutch/water pump/plugs/t-stat and chain tensioner pads service. At that mileage, I'd expect to see some brown bits of plastic in the oil. If so, use that to get the price down a bit more. You'll want the tensioner pads done "while you're in there" as the saying around here goes.
By then you'll be right at your $23k budget, but you'll have a sorted car and very solid peace of mind. FWIW, I bought mine for less and had IMSB and the full list above (and then some) done and have no regrets, even though the (dual row) IMSB came out of the car in absolutely perfect condition.
The '99s have more robust dual row bearing, so if the clutch on that car was done recently and there are no leaks from the middle of the tranny/engine casing (indicative of rear main seal leak) you could simply opt to have the IMS Guardian installed (google it) and install the LN spin on filter (to eliminate oil bypass) and just monitor metal in your that way until you do need a clutch. I think that would cost you only around $500.
A word of caution regarding these cars and clutch wear... When I bought mine (had 93k on odo) the clutch felt perfect. So much so that I briefly considered holding off on the major engine service. However, because there was no sign of tools having ever touched the transmission bolts and zero service history with the car, my mechanic and I were both pretty much convinced the original clutch was likely still in my car. Glad I elected to do the full engine out-service to address everything I listed above because when we got the clutch out it was down to scraping the rivets on the pressure plate side, but not yet to that point on the slightly fatter flywheel side. At least I saved myself the expense of adding a flywheel to that long list of parts to be proactively swapped.
So, let's say you can negotiate that car down to $14 or $15k, that gives you up to $8 or $9k budget to do major preventive maintenance and transport the car home, or buy an airline ticket to fly in and drive home.
Question one should be regarding the carfax report. Maybe seller will provide it upon request. Could be this car is generally very well maintained and that IMSB has been taken care of already? If shops or dealer are listed in carfax, call them up with the VIN and tell them you're thinking about buying it and ask what info they can provide about the car... You may get nothing, or you may get an avalanche of service history. You don't know if you don't ask!
Then, check with seller if he will let you get a PPI done on the car that includes a good look at the motor oil and filter. A leakdown test will tell you a lot, too...
FYI: You can go on the Porsche Club of America website and find a list of recommended indy shops all over the country and then let the seller who you'd like them to use...
Then, assuming your budget is the $23k you were considering plopping down on your local 911...
If PPI checks out, car is a decent runner and there is no metal present in the oil, buy it.
Then it's time to think about spending another $5-6k on the IMSB/RMS/AOS/Clutch/water pump/plugs/t-stat and chain tensioner pads service. At that mileage, I'd expect to see some brown bits of plastic in the oil. If so, use that to get the price down a bit more. You'll want the tensioner pads done "while you're in there" as the saying around here goes.
By then you'll be right at your $23k budget, but you'll have a sorted car and very solid peace of mind. FWIW, I bought mine for less and had IMSB and the full list above (and then some) done and have no regrets, even though the (dual row) IMSB came out of the car in absolutely perfect condition.
The '99s have more robust dual row bearing, so if the clutch on that car was done recently and there are no leaks from the middle of the tranny/engine casing (indicative of rear main seal leak) you could simply opt to have the IMS Guardian installed (google it) and install the LN spin on filter (to eliminate oil bypass) and just monitor metal in your that way until you do need a clutch. I think that would cost you only around $500.
A word of caution regarding these cars and clutch wear... When I bought mine (had 93k on odo) the clutch felt perfect. So much so that I briefly considered holding off on the major engine service. However, because there was no sign of tools having ever touched the transmission bolts and zero service history with the car, my mechanic and I were both pretty much convinced the original clutch was likely still in my car. Glad I elected to do the full engine out-service to address everything I listed above because when we got the clutch out it was down to scraping the rivets on the pressure plate side, but not yet to that point on the slightly fatter flywheel side. At least I saved myself the expense of adding a flywheel to that long list of parts to be proactively swapped.
So, let's say you can negotiate that car down to $14 or $15k, that gives you up to $8 or $9k budget to do major preventive maintenance and transport the car home, or buy an airline ticket to fly in and drive home.
This is turning from a negative to a positive, I just have to find another one.
10-06-2016, 08:03 AM
#35
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...e-911-c4s.html
Try that, if you want something in the low-mid 20s range. Much more car for the money. Anything over 20k, I would be looking for a 2002+ car.
Otherwise, there are lots of decent 99-01 coupes for around 18k (+/- 2). That red one from BaT was pretty fly. Slakker's car will be an awesome deal at 19k when he decides to sell it.
Try that, if you want something in the low-mid 20s range. Much more car for the money. Anything over 20k, I would be looking for a 2002+ car.
Otherwise, there are lots of decent 99-01 coupes for around 18k (+/- 2). That red one from BaT was pretty fly. Slakker's car will be an awesome deal at 19k when he decides to sell it.
10-06-2016, 11:58 AM
#36
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Thanks brother, please keep the suggestions coming guys if you have time.
I may increase my budget to $28-30K if that can get me into a pcar that doesn't require me to go through any real maintenance prior to turning it into a low mileage daily driver.
The idea of buying a car, and then turning around and replacing a bunch of parts has this newbie kinda leary.
Maybe something like this?
http://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5783651160.html
Also saw this nice older one with low miles in Nashville as well....seems high but already has some new parts on it
http://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5772003
849.html
I may increase my budget to $28-30K if that can get me into a pcar that doesn't require me to go through any real maintenance prior to turning it into a low mileage daily driver.
The idea of buying a car, and then turning around and replacing a bunch of parts has this newbie kinda leary.
Maybe something like this?
http://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5783651160.html
Also saw this nice older one with low miles in Nashville as well....seems high but already has some new parts on it
http://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5772003
849.html
10-06-2016, 12:39 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Right on... If you don't wish to oversee a project like that yourself (very understandable) you're definitely looking at cars from sellers keying in on all of the right things... The process for me has been very fun and challenging. (Installing new seat leather in mine soon - almost done!)
Of those two cars (I like 'em both) I think the newer 4S is the better overall value at their respective price points. $25k for that '99 seems a tad high for a coupe, but I bet that could be negotiated down somewhat. I might expect to see that price for a Cab in similar condition with all of that work done.
So, you seem kind of locked in on a coupe or targa, with a manual... and silver?
Are other colors or cabriolets of interest? I love car shopping for others.
Of those two cars (I like 'em both) I think the newer 4S is the better overall value at their respective price points. $25k for that '99 seems a tad high for a coupe, but I bet that could be negotiated down somewhat. I might expect to see that price for a Cab in similar condition with all of that work done.
So, you seem kind of locked in on a coupe or targa, with a manual... and silver?
Are other colors or cabriolets of interest? I love car shopping for others.
10-06-2016, 01:05 PM
#38
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First 996
It's a big world out there.
I'd recommend finding a car with the options you'd like, and traveling to get it.
I live in Los Angeles, and Porsches of all stripes are very common here. I flew to Nashville, TN to pick up my 2002 C2, then drove it back home.
I'd recommend finding a car with the options you'd like, and traveling to get it.
I live in Los Angeles, and Porsches of all stripes are very common here. I flew to Nashville, TN to pick up my 2002 C2, then drove it back home.
10-06-2016, 01:08 PM
#39
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^^+1 Now you are on the right track.
10-06-2016, 01:40 PM
#40
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Right on... If you don't wish to oversee a project like that yourself (very understandable) you're definitely looking at cars from sellers keying in on all of the right things... The process for me has been very fun and challenging. (Installing new seat leather in mine soon - almost done!)
Of those two cars (I like 'em both) I think the newer 4S is the better overall value at their respective price points. $25k for that '99 seems a tad high for a coupe, but I bet that could be negotiated down somewhat. I might expect to see that price for a Cab in similar condition with all of that work done.
So, you seem kind of locked in on a coupe or targa, with a manual... and silver?
Are other colors or cabriolets of interest? I love car shopping for others.
Of those two cars (I like 'em both) I think the newer 4S is the better overall value at their respective price points. $25k for that '99 seems a tad high for a coupe, but I bet that could be negotiated down somewhat. I might expect to see that price for a Cab in similar condition with all of that work done.
So, you seem kind of locked in on a coupe or targa, with a manual... and silver?
Are other colors or cabriolets of interest? I love car shopping for others.
I'm def. locked into a coupe or targa, and now that I've reset the search, manual and silver are my preferred trans & color.
I did test drive another 911 recently with tiptronic and to my surprise I enjoyed it quite a bit. I imagine the novelty of it might wear off sooner than later leaving me wishing I had the 6 speed manual.
I too thought the 25k sounded high, but also thought there might be room to bring it down with some negotiating.
I'd like to focus my search on the major metro areas near me......Birmingham, Atlanta, Montgomery, Nashville. I'd rather not buy a car from the north that has seen snow, or salty roads if that makes sense.
10-06-2016, 03:27 PM
#42
Instructor
Just went through all this and am happy with my choice. Two things someone mentioned the key fob, this one caught me. For a new Fob $165 and anther $155 to program at the dealer. Also not sure but I believe IMS cost a bit more to repair on a tiptronic car. Very Best of Luck!
10-06-2016, 03:27 PM
#43
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Pretty sure it was stock...on the one this thread was about, or the one I said was intoxicating. I should have put that in context, for a stock car it was intoxicating. There was a certain rumble to it upon cranking up, and revving. It honestly reminded me exactly of the old stock 1993 911 I drove extensively when younger.
Basically I've wanted that same feel in a car ever since I experienced it years ago...it was my first real taste of premium performance, as well as the incredibly unique pcar feel, and sound.
That said, I've listened to youtube vids of 996s with upgraded exhaust, and find them to be simply amazing. My old m3 had some work done and sounded fantastic, but not like these 996s.
This is basically the same sound the one I was driving had....
Basically I've wanted that same feel in a car ever since I experienced it years ago...it was my first real taste of premium performance, as well as the incredibly unique pcar feel, and sound.
That said, I've listened to youtube vids of 996s with upgraded exhaust, and find them to be simply amazing. My old m3 had some work done and sounded fantastic, but not like these 996s.
This is basically the same sound the one I was driving had....
10-06-2016, 04:21 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Hello. Just one more a**hole with some opinions. Ten months ago I bought a low mileage (43k) 2000 996 Cab with tip for $23k. Had a fairly decent service history...one owner, serviced by the same Porsche dealer for 15 years. So I paid top dollar for the car because after driving over 10 other examples, this was the nices one I found (and I didn't want a cab but I made the compromise). Ten months later...very happy but still missing a coupe. Bang...a month ago the trans lets go. $5k to replace it plus another $1k in misc. work. The point...low miles and service history are nice but they don't garuntee you anything. As many here have said...a fifteen or sixteen year old car is an old car.
I would put more importance on who owned a car, for how long, and who did their service, and can they show you the service history. Doesn't mean something can't break...but as least you are truly well informed and you, just reading the receipts, can get a good sense of what things will cost down the road.
The price of the car you just walked away from was too high by at least $5000. I'm looking at a car on Craigslist in So. Cal...silver 02 coupe, 82k miles, aero kit, $18995 before you even start haggling. And here's a 99 silver coupe with 92k miles with an asking of $16500...and these are in southern California. The odds are that these are in as good a condition as your low mile example. But with these you have money left over to make repairs.
Whoever recommended going to respected Porsche shops and looking for one of their customers cars made a good point. The price may be a little higher, but the knowns about the car should also be a better quality...and in the process you also find who you might want to work on the car when needed.
Don't rush...enjoy the courtship...the owning will be much sweeter.
I would put more importance on who owned a car, for how long, and who did their service, and can they show you the service history. Doesn't mean something can't break...but as least you are truly well informed and you, just reading the receipts, can get a good sense of what things will cost down the road.
The price of the car you just walked away from was too high by at least $5000. I'm looking at a car on Craigslist in So. Cal...silver 02 coupe, 82k miles, aero kit, $18995 before you even start haggling. And here's a 99 silver coupe with 92k miles with an asking of $16500...and these are in southern California. The odds are that these are in as good a condition as your low mile example. But with these you have money left over to make repairs.
Whoever recommended going to respected Porsche shops and looking for one of their customers cars made a good point. The price may be a little higher, but the knowns about the car should also be a better quality...and in the process you also find who you might want to work on the car when needed.
Don't rush...enjoy the courtship...the owning will be much sweeter.
10-06-2016, 04:42 PM
#45
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Hello. Just one more a**hole with some opinions. Ten months ago I bought a low mileage (43k) 2000 996 Cab with tip for $23k. Had a fairly decent service history...one owner, serviced by the same Porsche dealer for 15 years. So I paid top dollar for the car because after driving over 10 other examples, this was the nices one I found (and I didn't want a cab but I made the compromise). Ten months later...very happy but still missing a coupe. Bang...a month ago the trans lets go. $5k to replace it plus another $1k in misc. work. The point...low miles and service history are nice but they don't garuntee you anything. As many here have said...a fifteen or sixteen year old car is an old car.
I would put more importance on who owned a car, for how long, and who did their service, and can they show you the service history. Doesn't mean something can't break...but as least you are truly well informed and you, just reading the receipts, can get a good sense of what things will cost down the road.
The price of the car you just walked away from was too high by at least $5000. I'm looking at a car on Craigslist in So. Cal...silver 02 coupe, 82k miles, aero kit, $18995 before you even start haggling. And here's a 99 silver coupe with 92k miles with an asking of $16500...and these are in southern California. The odds are that these are in as good a condition as your low mile example. But with these you have money left over to make repairs.
Whoever recommended going to respected Porsche shops and looking for one of their customers cars made a good point. The price may be a little higher, but the knowns about the car should also be a better quality...and in the process you also find who you might want to work on the car when needed.
Don't rush...enjoy the courtship...the owning will be much sweeter.
I would put more importance on who owned a car, for how long, and who did their service, and can they show you the service history. Doesn't mean something can't break...but as least you are truly well informed and you, just reading the receipts, can get a good sense of what things will cost down the road.
The price of the car you just walked away from was too high by at least $5000. I'm looking at a car on Craigslist in So. Cal...silver 02 coupe, 82k miles, aero kit, $18995 before you even start haggling. And here's a 99 silver coupe with 92k miles with an asking of $16500...and these are in southern California. The odds are that these are in as good a condition as your low mile example. But with these you have money left over to make repairs.
Whoever recommended going to respected Porsche shops and looking for one of their customers cars made a good point. The price may be a little higher, but the knowns about the car should also be a better quality...and in the process you also find who you might want to work on the car when needed.
Don't rush...enjoy the courtship...the owning will be much sweeter.
Your story once again, and perhaps more than any other yet, makes me incredibly glad I decided to take my medicine, and come to the experts here on this forum. Some people might think it's ridiculous to walk away from a real world car that you like based solely on an internet forum thread, but I honestly believe the best chance I have at finding a proper 996 is by having you guys vet it for me to some degree.
I still think the reward of owning a proper 996 outweighs the risks of owning one. I can't think of another car that can deliver what the 996 is delivering for around the same coin. At this point they're talking to me in my sleep.