Schnell Gelb

Try this link - you are not alone !But PLEase tell us what works for your case to improve the knowledge base.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...revisited.html

djbooya

I don't see any of the TSBs. For example here:
https://www.renntech.org/forums/part...g-out-of-fuel/
or
https://www.renntech.org/forums/part...-modification/

I'm a paying member on renntech as well (as of 10/2016). Not sure if I am just blind and don't know where to click to download the TSB.

djbooya

More Troubleshooting Info:

In looking for the "short" on E6 I did some testing on the wire harness frequently referred to as the Telephone harness behind the driver side footwell:


According to Loren's post here:
https://www.renntech.org/forums/topi...#comment-23826
The pinouts should be:
My volt meter is set to this:


Here's my reference of the E6 Fuse location:


I get a tone on the following (no key in ignition):
Red from multi meter to Brown on harness
Red from multi meter to Green/Black on harness
Red from multi meter to Red/Green on harness
Red from multi meter to Red on E6 fuse connection

I don't get any tone:
Red from multi meter to Green on E6 fuse connection

When testing for voltage (and turning DMM **** to far left) I get:
Red on E6 fuse connection = 0
Green on E6 fuse connection = +12V

I'm guessing this means that somewhere between the Red on E6 Fuse connection and Red/Green on harness I have a short.
I'm a little confused now and am not bright enough to follow the detailed wiring diagrams. Armed with this information, can anyone help guide me on how I can find the short without having to unravel the whole dash and harness?

I don't see anything obvious on the end of the harness (nothing looks chafed against the airbag controller) and I don't see any exposed wire.

Schnell Gelb

If you are connecting the black cable from the DMM to ground, that would explain some of this.
How many Amps was your old, blown E6 fuse rated at ? 7.5A?
Try just replacing the fuse and covering the exposed(yes they are exposed!!) connections of the phone connector and see if that fixes it?
Let's test for short to ground 1st?
Remove E6. Connect the black to a good body ground ,ideally with an alligator clip and leave it there. Connect the red DMM probe to the brown conductor. That should be continuity ? Put E^ back in place -retest.
Now , let's check for 12v at Red/ Green with the red DMM probe .Set DMM to DC volts- extreme left on your DMM. What happens? You should get 12v.Repeat with ignition on.
Now let's check Green/Black and Yellow/black the same way.
With these results you are ready to send Snap On gift coupons to Ahsai and beg for his help :-). Because until you fix this you can't put gas in the car to drive it !
Meanwhile consider replacing the notoriously fickle and unreliable ignition switch with an Audi one.(Search)

djbooya

Yes

Yes - both of them

The moment a fuse touches the two leads (red box/green box) from my diagram it blows.

All my tests were done without fuse E6 in place. Which brown conductor are you referring to? The connector in the red or green box or the one on the telephone 4pin connector? Which test do you want me to do (voltage or continuity)? I've done a tone test and voltage test with results in my post above this.

As mentioned the instant a fuse blade touches both ends of that E6 connection it blows.

Right now this shows 0 since I can't get a working fuse to sit in E6. The voltage tests I documented so far were with the meter set all the way to the left.

I will check these and report back tonight.

Well I can get gas into the car - it just takes 5 mins / gallon , but I am more than happy to see if Ahsai can help remotely before I break down and bring it to a local indy shop. I'd much rather fix on my own (for my own education in addition to saving money) if possible though.

Just did this a few months ago due to failure of the OEM piece.

Schnell Gelb

Did you tape over the telephone connector to stop the exposed contacts from shorting?

djbooya

More data:
Checking for 12V

Un-switched:
Green/Black - 0
Yellow/black - 0
Brown - 0

Switched
Green/Black - 12.14V
Yellow/black - fluctuated +/- 3mV
Brown - 2.1mV

djbooya

I was holding the connector in my hand.. I didn't see them arcing? I haven't taped over them yet since I am still using them to test.

Schnell Gelb

If Brown (ground) to chassis ground is 2.1mV that is odd. It should be zero V.
You won't see arcing. Squander some tape ?
Obviously if you rub the exposed contact that is connected to Brown to chassis ground there will be a short circuit. Not good even at such low mVolts.
We need to find where that brown conductor is picking up voltage.Ask others for a link to a wiring diagram from the FSM. BTW the 12v tests should really show more than 12v unless you have a tired old battery.
Did you send the Snap on coupons to Ahsai ? I am jesting but he is one of the few who could take you quickly through the essential tests.

djbooya

I'll get it taped up on my next round of tests.

I'll re-test this again.

It's actually a brand new battery. I'll double check the voltage at the battery.
Not yet, but I'll contact him to see how much to send!

djbooya

Ok - I retested with a different DMM and the weird 2.1mV and fluctuating on yellow/black is gone. Maybe I didn't have a good connection on the first test.

I also taped up the connector, but am still getting a shorted fuse on E6 and the continuity test of the red box (from my fuse diagram) and ground still produces tone.

Green box and ground produces 12.2V - I get 12.3V direct from battery.
Green/black wire to ground produced 12V this time...

Schnell Gelb

O.K. that seems more normal.
Now we need to find the short.
Definitely need the FSM Wiring diagram for that.Need to find all the components in the E6 circuit to test them.
Or we can flail until a knowledgeable Sparky joins the conversation. The most likely component to be troublesome (Search) is the flap valve being prevented from operating because of fuel pipes obstructing it.You may have dislodged them when you replaced the reed valve?
In previous link I gave:
"1) Fuse E6 that controls the filler tube flap is blown
2) The tubes on the fuel pump can block the flap from opening
3) The vent tube(s) are pinched
(the TSB "Fuel Tank Hose Modification 5/99 2015" is for #2 or #3, but I can't find it)

4) But I also found a Pelican DIY saying to replace the fuel line vent valve that I've never seen mentioned once on Rennlist or anywhere else as being the culprit."
Procedure for reed valve replacement:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...Vent_Valve.htm

jaetee

... disregard. Question answered in OP's first post...

djbooya

It was unclear to me the actual procedure to check that and I couldn't find any DIYs for it.

The TSB I found here:
http://bethnrayndogs.com/car_docs/Po.../Grp2_5-99.pdf

#4 is what I did already - not sure how that would impact #2 and #3 from the limited access I did under the fender.

The pic from "Anthony" in the Pelican forums is actually mine with the blue tape after I did the re-install.

Ahsai

I can try to help. Get a 7.5A smart fuse from autozone or alike and plug it in the E6 slot. It should glow. Now trace back the steps you took to replace the valve and see if the wiring of that reed switch is inadvertantly pinched to ground. If you can disconnect the reed switch, disconnect it and see if the fuse light turns off.

Fuse E6 supplies power only to two places - the reed switch and the phone plug red/green wire. The switch when closed supplies power to two more valves. Since you seem to have a short even with the reed switch not activated, the short may be in the reed switch or its wiring.