Ahsai

For the 3.6 engines, the lifters are different for intake and exhaust. The intake lifters (the ones you replaced) are very expensive at ~$140 each (OEM not available afaik). The exhaust lifters are much cheaper at about $30 each from INA (OEM) so most likely those were what mbm replaced.

Your intake lifters end with .22 and the latest is .25 so my guess is those were the original lifters. Most rebuild will reuse the original intake lifters if they are ok due to cost ($1,700 for 12 of them). But of course there're always risks when reusing components.

DrMEMS

That is very interesting. William and I were wondering how to figure that out.

Ahsai

You mean how I figured it out? You posted pics of your lifters in post #133.

DrMEMS

No, the .22 vs. .25 in the part number.
Part of the reason I post lots of photos is that someone can use them to figure out details, even for different topics.

Ahsai

If you google your .22 part number, .25 will show up as the latest part that supercedes the .22. A more direct way is to look up the intake valve lifter, part #6 here
http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p...section=103-11

I'm rebuilding an identical 3.6 right now so I'm quite familiar with these parts.

Sneaky Pete

Well now isn't this getting interesting. It appears as MB is re-using some parts in his builds. I guess at that price point one would do that.

LexVan

And if you're a thief.

Slakker

You my friend seem to be a master of baiting.

Sneaky Pete

Not trying to but I'm thinking the facts that are surfacing are quite revealing.

DrMEMS

Overall, Agnes and Martin at MB were pretty good to work with during the purchase. They helped source the X51 intake headers and other parts needed for the X51 upgrade.

At this point, however, I'm getting madder and madder now that I'm having trouble a year after the rebuild. I wish that they'd replaced the intake valve lifters during the rebuild. And it's still not right, with 6 degrees bank 1 camshaft deviation (after replacing the intake valve lifters) and rough idling. Now I'd say it's 3/4 of the time after engine has warmed up.

Ahsai

Have you tried the following?
- clean the throttle body and the MAF
- do an e-gas recalibration
- check condition of the engine mounts
- read fuel trims (RKAT and FRAU)...just to see if they are healthy and if there's intake air leak.

DrMEMS

* I put in a new MAF a few months ago and nothing changed (roughness or air-flow readings), so I believe that both the old and new MAFs are good.
* I will clean the throttle body. Is carburetor cleaner recommended?
* How do I do an e-gas recalibration?
* When I put in a new fuel injector a few months ago, the engine mounts seemed fine. The mechanic at BAMW didn't mention anything when he lowered the engine to replace the valve lifters, and he does mention if anything appears amiss. The rough idling is intermittent.
* I think I have recent RKAT and FRAU readings. I'll post those and you can tell me if they're good.

Ahsai

There's special CRC throttle body cleaner available at any auto parts store as some throttle body has special coating that regular cleaner will remove. Not sure our throttle body has such coating but better be safe than sorry.

To do e-gas recalibration, just leave the key to the last position before crank for 1 minute with your foot off the gas pedal. Then remove key and wait for 10s and you're done.

The intermittent nature makes it difficult to diagnose but you may want to monitor the sensor values (e.g., MAF, O2 sensor and cam deviation, misfires) in real-time when driving and see if anything looks very different when the rough idling occurs.

DrMEMS

Results so far:
* E-gas recalibration: I could hear the butterfly valve moving. No change.
* Cleaned with CRC brand throttle-body cleaner and a new microfiber towel. The TB was pretty clean to start with. I got a little black coating off onto the towel. The black plastic air intake looked fine. I then recalibrated the e-gas again. After a hard start, no change in two minutes of idling.

MBMotorsports

I can see everyone here has expressed their opinion. I will start with Ahsai, I can tell by your posts in this tread and others that you are a very smart guy, professional, knowledgeable and always on point. At the same time you don't make a big deal out of it, I like those traits in people. This is actually how I imagined owner of Flat Six before I got to know him a little better on the forums.
Jake, charging 25k for rebuild you should not only pay for shipping both ways but pay for shipping both ways for another 10 years. Kirt paid 10k for his rebuilt long block with 6 months warranty.
Sneaky pete, I know you're only waiting to hear about my engine failing so you can feed off of it. I will have to disappoint you, I've rebuilt a lot of engines which are still going strong! On Average we have 2-3 engines leave our shop per month between our 2 locations.
Lex van, you're hard to argue with because you need a psychiatric specialist. You've been hating me and my business for few years now and you've been told by other members to go take care of your wife or something so you maybe become less frustrated. Be careful what you say and what you call other people, no one is anonymous. If you think you can sit behind your computer and call people whatever you like, think again! This is your final warning.
Kirt, I'm not going to lie, we deal with a lot of different people. Many customers contact us with lots of questions even not related to their engine. We always stand by our work and always try to help everyone whenever they have a problem. You did not contact us immediately when you had first signs of trouble. You drove your car for 2 months with misfires and instead went to the forum to solve your problems. Your warranty was for 6 months, that is what we have explained to you at the time of purchase. We went over it in details explaining that your original core had low miles and original cases (not resleeved). I couldn't give more than 6 months warranty for non-resleeved original cylinders. For a while now we've been offering longer 1 year warranty because all cylinders are always resleeved.
After your engine was installed you had a problem with temperature going up and down. There was no coolant circulation in the system, and we have advised you not to drive like this. You kept driving everyday to work, calling us while at work to help you bleed the coolant system. This is exactly why we always prefer to install our own engines. Your car wouldn't ever leave our shop if the coolant system was not bled properly and engine temperature was going up and down. Driving in such conditions causes internal damage and you could have helped the valve lifters to get scored while they expanded in high temp. I didn't see you mention this on the forum before? It's always easiest to blame MB Motorsports for not replacing the parts. I do have my own supplier in Europe, I don't have to pay the middle men who only make money on mark up.
Ahsai, you shipped your cases to LN. Do you think they do it in house? No, they send it off to a different company, later put their logo on it and make money on mark up.
I avoid this scenario, this is why Kirt paid $10,000 for my engine instead of $25k at FSI. The truth is I get more people calling me every month and our waiting period stretches because of that.
Kirt, no wonder you 're still having problems with your engine. You've been to too many shops trying to solve your problem, I won't be surprised if your engine has serious failure in the future after all this and revving it up to 7000rpms in neutral. I have offered you help, I said if it's something inside the long block I would cover the repair if you ship your car to me. At that time you spoke with Agnes it was almost 1 year after your purchase, your warranty was over 6 months after purchase. You chose to go elsewhere. Right now please don't expect me to help you after you chose to go somewhere else and they didn't do the job right or didn't take care of the problem. Driving with a problem for 2 months and later going to the forum to publicly talk about your engine problems before I even hear about it is not the way to solve any issues. It doesn't work this way. Now you're trying to force me to help you? That's not how you ask for help.