Noz1974

Ok has anyone fitted this bearing it's the EPS ETERNAL FIX CYLINDRICAL ROLLER BEARING IMS SOLUTION from Vertex auto, they have also recently included a slotted oil pump drive key which feeds oil through the inside of the ims to lubricate the bearing

IM NOT INTERESTED IN ANY OTHER BEARING OR STARTING ANY TICKLE TACKLE ABOUT CERAMIC BEARING SOLUTIONS THANKS!!

ltusler

THEN WHY ARE YOU ASKING, JUST BUY IT AND INSTALL IT.

911sanantone

Noz1974 - was this an advertisement for the Vertex bearing? It certainly was not a great post.
I would actually like a comparison between the Vertex and the LN versions. That would make for far better reading.
Enjoy your Vertex bearing.

Noz1974

No it's not that I'm excluding any other bearing but last time I posted I just ended up starting an endless ln bearing discussion , just wanted to know if the eps bearing was any good as it looks quite impressive, was just wondering if anyone had one with some mileage under its belt

Ben Z

Porsches are fairly low-production vehicles as mass-produced cars go, and going by the class-action suit statistics, there is only an 8% failure rate for the OEM bearing. The Vertex bearing is relatively new on the market, and nobody is telling how many of them have been put in service or for how many miles. So even if there are zero reports of failures, compared to a handful with the LN ceramic, I would be reluctant to make any conclusions.

My personal view is that the predominant reason for failures of the OEM bearing is the trapping of abrasive grit within the confines of the seals, and any fix that allows free(er) exchange of oil (combined with frequent oil and filter changes) is going to bring that 8% failure rate down drastically.

docmirror

I have also been interested in seeing any installations of this combo of roller bearing and oil pump lube shaft. From an engineering perspective, but not one of empirical experience, this looks like a very good design or solution.

The two caveats that the other bearing maker points out with some validity is that the oil pump shaft is delivering hot and unfiltered oil to this bearing, and that the roller bearing has little to no axial support for the shaft. I doubt that axial support is a big issue, but there are failure modes on the shaft which can't be easily seen without running the engine at speed for a long time. Harmonic vibration or differing torque loads applied from the cam lobes could have an effect on the axial load on the shaft. I just don't know if it would be an issue or not. It appears that the IMS is driven by a non-beveled gear from the crankshaft, so that would not generally impart an axial load on the shaft, but again - I have no experience directly in this area.

Michael Gibney

The slotted oil pump drive key is a really neat idea, have just ordered one, will get it fitted in the next few months, preventative maintenance and it's about time to do the clutch anyway at 200,000 km and the rear main seal has been on and off leaking, but it seems to have "gone dry" for the last 10,000 km.

Hats off to the person who thought of this, really so simple, bet those who have gone to great lengths to design and get into manufacture direct oil feed systems are wondering why they didn't think of it, and I bet some of them will chime in (here or elsewhere) and say they thought of it but for this and that reason their product is better, will be interesting to see what they say, and this is the sort of thing that it's very hard to have the last word on human creativity being what it is.

A friend is a mechanical engineer, and I asked him the question "how much would this weaken the drive" and he said "although it depends on what the starting point is (i.e. how good is the original product) probably just as serviceable and if better material and if the slot is in the correct place and properly machined there may be no measurable difference".

Although I'm not an engineer the design is really neat and appeals to me, a slow drip feed or even a very slow squirt into the tube where the other end is a bearing that has had both seals removed would never do much more than coat the inside of the tube with oil and thereby constantly lubricate the bearing as the oil returns to the sump, and my guess is that it would not do any harm to the engine balance, think harmonic balancer.

And should have said, already have the Flat 6 ceramic bearing kit to fit but will now remove both seals.

All constructive comments welcome.

Flat6 Innovations

Why? What benefits will you see from this?Please utilize the components as they were developed, and thats with the inner seal in place. No additional oil delivery is necessary, nor is it beneficial with this component.

Michael Gibney

Hi Jake, thanks for the advice, understand what you're saying and also understand that you have put hundreds if not thousands of hours into this and that it would be hard to find anybody more experienced, but I'm just one of those people that likes to have a go, and until somebody convinces me that more oil in a bearing is detrimental then I'll just have a go, perhaps I'm in the school of thinking that says it can't do any harm so why not, and if somebody said to me it can do some harm I'd be saying "so how is too much oil is a problem?"
Anyway thanks again because having owned my 2002 Targa for about 7 years now I have followed the 996 "saga" and I really appreciate the development work you have done, have a few of your products on my car and whilst they do add that "neat upgraded look" they are all practical engineering fixes and improvements.

Flat6 Innovations

Do some searches on "bearing churning". You'll see that over lubrication can be a negative.

Too much of a good thing, is no longer a good thing.

Michael Gibney

Thanks for the follow up Jake, takes me back 43 years to the auto mech class at Tech School, having a better memory for those long ago times than I seem to have with the shopping list can be helpful, 1st year included a class on packing wheel bearings, too much grease and you risked churning the grease which the teacher said caused the ***** to slide on the grease rather than roll and the friction and pressure causes the grease to break to resemble very old dried out grease, 3rd year was a class on automatic transmission theory, we were told that one of the reasons for using ATF was its lower churn factor leading to more retained power.
And I did the search you suggested and there seems to be mention of the same two types of churn only, maybe I'm missing something but a dribble of oil that runs through an open bearing does not seem to be either type of churn.
And thanks for your interest, it's great for us to have you contributing.

Flat6 Innovations

It's clear that you are determined to do this. No use to argue, you must also be informed that any unauthorized modifications will void all warranty for your LN IMSB.

Also, when core drilling the "plug" inside the IMSB to allow for oil to pass through it, simply consider what would happen if that "plug" becomes dislodged. Where's the oil pump drive going to go? What's going to happen when and if it "goes"?

Yes, been there, done that. It was a 25,000.00 experiment.

Your car, your call.

Ben Z

xx

Flat6 Innovations

Way too many comparisons in your post.. And you are confusing apples with grapefruits..

That said, The IMS Solution oil feed is not to be confused with, or compared to anything else. The reason for this is due to the plain bearing working from hydrodynamic properties radially and hydrostatic properties longitudinally. The IMS Solution works like the rod and main bearings with your engine, it will not work from splash oiling for the same reasons that your rod and main bearings won't sustain life with splash oil only.

The rod and main bearings, and the IMS Solution never see metal to metal contact, the "wear surface" is literally the hydro elastomeric film of oil between the components.

Ben Z

Let me try to put it in less fruitful terms.

The OEM bearing was supposed to remain sealed for the life of the engine but it doesn't. Instead, it lets oil in, but not out. So the dirty oil and any leftover grease inside acts like grinding paste. Result, the bearing fails.