EPS Eternal fix Cylindrical roller bearing ims with oil feed
10-06-2014, 12:59 AM
#16
Former Vendor
The OEM bearing was supposed to remain sealed for the life of the engine but it doesn't. Instead, it lets oil in, but not out. So the dirty oil and any leftover grease inside acts like grinding paste. Result, the bearing fails.
The DOF people say splash oiling is not good enough to keep an unsealed bearing from failing. I say IF that was true, all the LN bearings out there using splash oiling alone would be failing left and right. But they aren't. So the DOF guys are wrong.
Your Solution DOES need direct oiling because it is a completely different design than a ball bearing. Which is what you said.
We are way off topic now. No need to hijack this thread.
10-07-2014, 12:43 AM
#18
Well since you started it, just to clarify, are you saying all single row bearings on a 996 is inadequate? You mentioned failure of single row is due to being overloaded which doesn't seem too clear to me.
10-08-2014, 08:59 PM
#19
LOL Alpine, the "reasons" for failure served up by the people who profit from the aftermarket fixes have less reasoning and more spin than an IMS bearing 
A 1-gallon bucket does not need the bottom to be thick enough to hold the weight of 2 gallons. But if the bottom starts to rust, then the thicker one won't drop out as soon. Same deal with the IMS bearing. The small one can last the life of the engine (and many do) as long as the bearing is not damaged by other causes. In a small but significant proportion, the seals let some oil in, but not out. Dirty oil mixes with the grease, turns acidic, and acts like grinding paste, weakening the bearing. At which point the lighter-duty bearing is unquestionably more likely to fail and fail sooner than the heavier-duty bearings. That is reasoning based on science, and if anyone wishes to challenge it with science that's fine.
A 1-gallon bucket does not need the bottom to be thick enough to hold the weight of 2 gallons. But if the bottom starts to rust, then the thicker one won't drop out as soon. Same deal with the IMS bearing. The small one can last the life of the engine (and many do) as long as the bearing is not damaged by other causes. In a small but significant proportion, the seals let some oil in, but not out. Dirty oil mixes with the grease, turns acidic, and acts like grinding paste, weakening the bearing. At which point the lighter-duty bearing is unquestionably more likely to fail and fail sooner than the heavier-duty bearings. That is reasoning based on science, and if anyone wishes to challenge it with science that's fine.
10-09-2014, 12:47 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
So how difficult is it to inspect the seal? Can it be done with the engine in the car? Are frequent oil changes and clean oil a good means of preventing contamination of the seal? I'm not trying get into the class action issue but has Porsche ever written anything on the issue and offered advice on the seal corruption as the beginning of the end?
There seem to be a group in Rennlist who are impatient or bored with this subject and resent others bringing it up again and again. However many of us who are new owners of the 996 are gaining a lot of information but having the issue kept a live and active.
My own intermediate solution has been to buy a 3 year/36000 mile service contract that covers the entire engine and trans. That provides me with time to read, learn, and make up my own mind while not feeling pressure about a sudden engine failure. And perhaps in the next three years an even better solution will present itself.
There seem to be a group in Rennlist who are impatient or bored with this subject and resent others bringing it up again and again. However many of us who are new owners of the 996 are gaining a lot of information but having the issue kept a live and active.
My own intermediate solution has been to buy a 3 year/36000 mile service contract that covers the entire engine and trans. That provides me with time to read, learn, and make up my own mind while not feeling pressure about a sudden engine failure. And perhaps in the next three years an even better solution will present itself.
10-09-2014, 12:35 PM
#21
So how difficult is it to inspect the seal? Can it be done with the engine in the car? Are frequent oil changes and clean oil a good means of preventing contamination of the seal? I'm not trying get into the class action issue but has Porsche ever written anything on the issue and offered advice on the seal corruption as the beginning of the end?
02-01-2015, 04:03 PM
#22
EPS IMS
Hey to all this is my first post, The IMS Issue has really got my attention.
I deal with bearing that fail daily. I have removed thousands of them. I have built manual transmissions for more than 30 years. I have seen the engineers attempts at solving bearing failure. The one constant is damage to very expensive parts. That has not changed for 30 years. It Is the roller, tapered roller, ball bearing, ball bearing sealed combination, million dollar question . the ball sealed like in our 996-997 has always been a bad idea. they tend to fail in all unit, the metal shed is contained, Prematurely wears and failure. when I replace a sealed ball I have been removing the inner seal since before it was blowing up the first 996. ball bearing are an easy way to solve the thrust and the load at the same time but that is a lot of stress and failure . taking the seal off helps squirting oil helps. a ball bearing still fails more from my experience. the roller tapered seems to work well but you have to shim tolerances with minor wear the tolerances change and misalignment progresses and failure.
the roller, if they used this bearing more I would be out of business. it is a load bearing flat thrust. the thrust and load angles is in the L shape . the EPS is my choice I ordered it Thursday. the guys at EPS Vertex seemed to be very informative.
I will keep you up to date
I deal with bearing that fail daily. I have removed thousands of them. I have built manual transmissions for more than 30 years. I have seen the engineers attempts at solving bearing failure. The one constant is damage to very expensive parts. That has not changed for 30 years. It Is the roller, tapered roller, ball bearing, ball bearing sealed combination, million dollar question . the ball sealed like in our 996-997 has always been a bad idea. they tend to fail in all unit, the metal shed is contained, Prematurely wears and failure. when I replace a sealed ball I have been removing the inner seal since before it was blowing up the first 996. ball bearing are an easy way to solve the thrust and the load at the same time but that is a lot of stress and failure . taking the seal off helps squirting oil helps. a ball bearing still fails more from my experience. the roller tapered seems to work well but you have to shim tolerances with minor wear the tolerances change and misalignment progresses and failure.
the roller, if they used this bearing more I would be out of business. it is a load bearing flat thrust. the thrust and load angles is in the L shape . the EPS is my choice I ordered it Thursday. the guys at EPS Vertex seemed to be very informative.
I will keep you up to date
Last edited by gaprecisiongear; 02-01-2015 at 07:07 PM.
02-01-2015, 07:24 PM
#24
My car is a 2000. It had a dual row bearing but of course that was not known until it was inspected as that year could have had either type. Jake did my replacement with the ceramic dual row LN bearing, which should be good for 75000 more miles, probably longer. If I had a single row bearing I would have had him install the IMS SOLUTION which is the best way to go if its possible. Only the single row cars can have that installed. After that installation the IMSB is no longer an issue because it uses the same type of bearing as a rod bearing and is pressure fed, there is never ANY metal to metal contact just as there is never any in a rod bearing. There is no use waiting for a BETTER way to do it as there will never be one. The other ways are improvements of various degrees, most are just fine but the BEST is the IMS SOLUTION. It may just be that the IMSB will outlast everything else in the engine after that modification and we will get to know what the second most common serious defect will be.
02-01-2015, 09:55 PM
#25
Drifting
Gaprecisiongear
Since you are a new to the Forum(1 post only) ,you may have missed this?
http://imsretrofit.com/roller-bearings/
Since you are very experienced with bearings, it would be interesting to hear your reaction to the linked page above.
You seem experienced with the 996 also ,so that will make your comments even more interesting.
The key question for roller vs ball bearing seems to be to know the maximum thrust force & frequency/duration on the IMS bearing in the M96. I have never seen a figure. It seems LN and JR found that number to be way too high to risk selling a roller bearing
Since you are a new to the Forum(1 post only) ,you may have missed this?
http://imsretrofit.com/roller-bearings/
Since you are very experienced with bearings, it would be interesting to hear your reaction to the linked page above.
You seem experienced with the 996 also ,so that will make your comments even more interesting.
The key question for roller vs ball bearing seems to be to know the maximum thrust force & frequency/duration on the IMS bearing in the M96. I have never seen a figure. It seems LN and JR found that number to be way too high to risk selling a roller bearing
Last edited by Schnell Gelb; 02-01-2015 at 10:42 PM.
02-02-2015, 02:19 PM
#26
I have read the report, this is done with all the bearing companies to best fit the bearing to the right application, in this case with the 996 there should have never put a bearing at the end of the IMS just look at the other side no problem no bearing.
the fix that is the most expensive make the most sense to me they don't use a bearing they mimic the other side. i just don`t want to
put anymore money into this car than i have to. Porsche is to blame for a crappy attempt at building a car like a bad sequel to a great movie. my point is that many other things are potentially problems. it suck this is one of the best driving cars i have ever put my butt in. back to the bearing ball vs roller if you notice the EPS IMS use the load portion on the roller and the thrust portion on the face of the outer race that is slick in my opinion i have seen this in some manual transmissions and it works well. as far as frequency test roller bearing have more surface area contact that is how they support more load. all the ideas are a flip of a coin to me. the idea that this has to be done every 50,000 to 70,000 mile is infuriating to me. Porsche should have to pay for every single repair. the build sheet on my 996 was $97,000 REALLY!!!!!! they all should be ashamed
the fix that is the most expensive make the most sense to me they don't use a bearing they mimic the other side. i just don`t want to
put anymore money into this car than i have to. Porsche is to blame for a crappy attempt at building a car like a bad sequel to a great movie. my point is that many other things are potentially problems. it suck this is one of the best driving cars i have ever put my butt in. back to the bearing ball vs roller if you notice the EPS IMS use the load portion on the roller and the thrust portion on the face of the outer race that is slick in my opinion i have seen this in some manual transmissions and it works well. as far as frequency test roller bearing have more surface area contact that is how they support more load. all the ideas are a flip of a coin to me. the idea that this has to be done every 50,000 to 70,000 mile is infuriating to me. Porsche should have to pay for every single repair. the build sheet on my 996 was $97,000 REALLY!!!!!! they all should be ashamed
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Dunk49 (12-13-2023)
02-02-2015, 02:46 PM
#27
Race Director
Well, there IS a bearing at the other end of the shaft...
If Porsche had made a decent replacement bearing available and had added it to the maintenance schedule, I don't think many people would have squawked. There are plenty of $100,000 cars that have expensive scheduled maintenance requirements. I think the shameful part is the steadfast refusal to acknowledge and offer a solution to rectify the issue.
If Porsche had made a decent replacement bearing available and had added it to the maintenance schedule, I don't think many people would have squawked. There are plenty of $100,000 cars that have expensive scheduled maintenance requirements. I think the shameful part is the steadfast refusal to acknowledge and offer a solution to rectify the issue.
02-02-2015, 03:30 PM
#28
there is a bearing in the front of the IMS, but it is not a roller or a ball bearing. it is a bushing- Babbitt - sleeve -journal cup style like the expensive fix for the rear.
Last edited by gaprecisiongear; 02-02-2015 at 08:30 PM.
02-02-2015, 04:08 PM
#29
because it uses the same type of bearing as a rod bearing and is pressure fed, there is never ANY metal to metal contact just as there is never any in a rod bearing.
