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A C4S is 276 lbs heavier that a base C2 for the same year. So essentially what has been done is to make a slower C2, i.e. one that is still ~200 lbs heavier than a C2. The whole of a C4S is to make a car that looks like a Turbo, but doesn't perform like a Turbo. Really it is just pretty much a poser car: Turbo looks without Turbo price. While owners don't call them "poser" cars, they all say they bought the C4S due to styling. It basically has about that same weight with a lot less power as a Turbo. If you want the better performing lightweight 2WD version, you just get the C2.
I am very confused and not really understanding the point to this thread. From my reading I am guessing this is a thread about gas mileage? For gas mileage, I would get 8 mpg on the track, 16 mpg in the city and 27 mpg straight cruise @ 75 on the highway when I had my 02' X51 C2.
Don't rain on the Captain! He just wrote a "How To". He's modding his frickin ride. Accept it for what it is. He doesn't care about it being faster. He's got a great looking C4S that's 2WD; that weighs less, and in turn, a little better mpg's. A lot of P-car owners would desire to have a Widebody look in a 2WD configuration. "Turbo look without the Turbo price"? That was PAG's idea. They sold the idea and customers bought... ALOT.
OT, I love 997 GT variants and the new 991, but it's not in my current budget to sacrifice getting one. I need back seats, so it's got to be a Turbo for now. I do not care to improve my current mpg's; 15 in my DD driving. I put less than 8000 miles peryear, so I'm good. But with a Turbo, if I need to merge onto the highway, and get past a few cars, I can do it faster than just about EVERY car out there.
A C4S is 276 lbs heavier that a base C2 for the same year. So essentially what has been done is to make a slower C2, i.e. one that is still ~200 lbs heavier than a C2. The whole of a C4S is to make a car that looks like a Turbo, but doesn't perform like a Turbo. Really it is just pretty much a poser car: Turbo looks without Turbo price. While owners don't call them "poser" cars, they all say they bought the C4S due to styling. It basically has about that same weight with a lot less power as a Turbo. If you want the better performing lightweight 2WD version, you just get the C2.
I am very confused and not really understanding the point to this thread. From my reading I am guessing this is a thread about gas mileage? For gas mileage, I would get 8 mpg on the track, 16 mpg in the city and 27 mpg straight cruise @ 75 on the highway when I had my 02' X51 C2. It had Euro GT3 front seats, no rear seats, Techequipe rollbar and Fabspeed mufflers. Weight on the scales with the 18x9/18x11 CCW race wheels was 3060 lbs. Swapping the seats from high-backs to fiberglass Recaros and mufflers from the OEM chunks of lead to Fabspeeds dropped almost 100 lbs, giving an idea of how heavy those components are.
I would venture a guess that a 2wd C4S would pull more Gs on the skid pad, given the much fatter tires and wider track. Plus you get better brakes. The chassis weight difference should be minimal, as far as the extra sheet metal goes.
When I put my car on the scales at Laguna Seca, my car weighed in at 3607 or 3613 lbs. I don't have a sunroof. Standard Seats, 1/4-1/2 tank of gasoline, sans spare and hollow spoke wheels with R rubber.
Whatever the published weights are, they're unobtanium.
Will 276 lbs make a difference? You betcha, especially on the front end. Now if you ditch the heavy memory power seats, it'd be that much better. But then you make up for it a bit by adding in a cage. It's all give and take.
For example, my Audi S4 Avant, without Spare was 39xx lbs, where the advertised weight was in the neighborhood of 3600 lbs.
Does anyone know how much this would cost to re-install if you had a independent Porsche mechanic to install it? Or a Porsche dealer?
If you damaged any parts (I would need new half shafts, for example, due to my...disassembly method), that would need to be factored in.
I think 2-3 hours of labor would be plenty to get the components reinstalled. Maybe a new flex disc while you're in there, but labor would be the only real expense if you keep all of the parts.
My front diff has experienced the displeasure of bearing failure, and while I search for a trust-worthy donor this is one fantastic option. 996 C4S' simplicity never ceases to amaze me... I can't express enough about how glad I am to own my childhood dream car, and not have it be a major PITA to maintain.
This is a good write up, beautiful car! For those asking why- go look how much people pay to make their narrowbody look phat. You get many improvements in the C4S other than the "turbo look for posers".
i just took out the cardon shaft for now for experimental purposes (drivetrain noise isolation, playing with tire sizes, etc). At this point I see a "C2S" as a 996 version of the GTS- all the luxury and options of a turbo with cheaper N/A motor.
FOR THE RECORD THOUGH:
Anyone interested in trying this- the FRONT STUB AXLE TORQUE is 340 ft lbs- not the 130 mentioned above. And replace that large 32mm nut everytime you loosen.
i am interested how you "modified" for front axles to steal the stubs- do you have pictures of this? I always guessed a C2 stub would fit in the knuckle- but have not measured the two side by side to confirm. Buying these couldn't be TOO expensive and saves you the hassle of modifying parts you may want later.
i am interested how you "modified" for front axles to steal the stubs- do you have pictures of this? I always guessed a C2 stub would fit in the knuckle- but have not measured the two side by side to confirm.
I disassembled the CV joint and used the stub (I coated the exposed stub in Plastidip to prevent rust from forming, it worked wonderfully). This is something I should have taken pics of, but if you do a search, there is a how-to thread about rebuilding your axles, which does have pics.
C4 and C2 have different front hubs, so I doubt a C2 axle stub would have worked, though that is only a guess.
Hello, I’ve got a question, please: I’m looking into buying a Carrera, preferably a C2, but all the cool colours and the nice options come with a front diff.
So I found this thread!
Would the C4 be very different from a C2 after removing the front transmission? And PSM would just operate on the back, correct?
Captain Obvious, did you solve the front end problems after a new wheel alignment, please?
If you're comfortable spending a ton of money then do it. REID performance makes those stubs and machines off the extra meat not needed so that's why they are a little lighter.
But don't listen to those who say you need to "hack" apart your axles. It takes some work for sure, but it's relatively easy to separate the hubs from axles without damage at all. And they go right back together when you want.
06-30-2013, 03:20 PM
