zdd7

i'm listening

Sue Esponte

Dire by wire is electronic steering. The 996 doesn't have it. For that matter, no cars from the late 90s had it. It is still relatively new technology albeit pervasive throughout the industry today.

And, as for the LN bearing, as I stated earlier they describe it as a maintenance item. It is not a lifetime bearing. It does require replacement after the passage of miles. You can check the LN site for details and confirmation but my recollection was that they (or someone) recommended replacing it every 50k miles or so.

-Eric

mlambert890

Actually drive by wire refers to throttle - cable vs electronic. 99 911 was cable, after this electronic throttle.

Variable Electrically assisted power steering (vs pure hydraulic) is what Sue is referring to and is pretty new (991 has it) and fairly controversial because it kills steering feel at low speeds which is what you feel immediately on driving (so it feels like it just kills steering feel completely). That is sometimes referred to as "EPS" but I don't think there is a universally accepted quick term for it. It's vendor by vendor terms really.

EMBPilot

Let the value of a 996 vs that of a 993 & 997 speak for itself. There's a reason for that.

You may continue on w ur discussion about grenading engines and LNE updates...

mlambert890

Really unnecessary post IMO, coming into the 996 forum to chime in on a thread where a guy is asking specifically about the 996 (and openly admits he doesn't like spending lots of money) and evangelizing the 993

The 993 is up on a high pedestal the world over ad nauseum. If the ONE place it gets deemphasized is the 996 forum on rennlist I suspect you guys will live.

Shockingly enough there ARE people who do prefer the 996 and I believe the OP is one of them so no need for snide remarks really.

mlambert890

Double post

Cosmo Kramer

The value of 993's I agree. 997's no they are following the same path of the 996.

I would buy a 993 but I am 6'2" 250 lbs and my knees would be beside my ears with the seat all the way back!

mlambert890

The 993 value is specious IMO. It's wrapped up in nostalgia and tradition. Not that it isn't a great car, but it is disproportionately valued because of that. Porschephile traditionalism, "end of an era", switch to water cooling. That has kept the 993 insanely high.

None of that means much to many young or "new to Porsche" buyers. Super enthusiasts will continue to trade 993s around at increasingly insane prices (to the point where it pushed up the 964), and the modern cars will depreciate like modern cars do.

Long term, however, I would not expect owners introduced to Porsche with the 996 forward to suddenly decide to go back to the 993 or earlier. Some will of course, but the trends for the majority rarely go that way.

None of this means much for the OP who is looking for a *budget* 996. Quite the opposite bringing up high value classics for a guy who wants a cheap modern car.

EMBPilot

the OP asked which 911 he should buy. his budget can afford almost any 911 depending on condition. its only prudent to present all the options. and he specifically mentioned one being reliable and not eating repair costs.

Marc Gelefsky

997 Value will drop like a stone as well, The only reason it's not quite as fast as the 996 is the economy is "marginally" better right now.

I don't see any new mass produced mainstream model Porsche's holding value like the older cars.

Dennis C

I'd love to own a 993 someday, but not as a daily driver. Values are high on the 993 for lots of reasons. One of the most important is simply the available supply vs. the demand. The 993 was only sold from 1995 - 1998. That, coupled with the fact that it was the last air-cooled car will always keep the values high. The 996 was produced for a longer period of time in much higher numbers. There are considerably more 996 cars available in the market. This keeps prices lower and makes the 996 a wonderful choice for a first 911 purchase.

Frank996

One thing I have learnt about being a Porsche owner over the last couple of months, at least here where I currently live in Switzerland, is that 911 owners ALWAYS greet each other when seeing each other on the road (99% wave back because they are enthusiast while the last 1% because they didn't see you OR its just a car to them)... FANTASTIC. I have also been approached by people complimenting the car, old as young, so it does help me brushing up on French and German which is a plus.

My first wish was a '99 996 3.4 C2 Cab or even a C4 Cab, then changed my focus to the later 3.6 C4 Cab and ended up with a C4S (non cab) as I feel in love the second I turned the key at the car dealer and luckily it checked out passing the tests I had arranged. I might have bought it anyway I just didn't fancy the look of the 997's interior and I would be spending my time watching the inside rather than the outside and the 996 ticked all the boxes. What the 997 does for me is the gril on the back which seems more rough but otherwise its the 996 all the way for me.

So, as a relatively new Porsche 996 owner I would recommend to go for what you fancy and make sure it is in a good condition. I have never smiled as much as I do now driving it, OR even just passing it in the parking place in the garage. It will change your life I turn off the music, open the windows and rev it to around 3-4000 RPMs when driving through a tunnel and its sweet as hell (OK not as sweet as an air cooled 911) but hell it's worth the months of hard savings...

rpm's S2

Two very good points...

1. Part of the reason for the steep decline in 996 values from '08-'11 was the significant economic downturn that hit just as these cars were coming out of the 4-5 year loan cycle. The downturn hit the ranks of mid-career professionals particularly hard - exactly the first Porsche demographic (Porsche has often argued that the best lower-priced Porsche is a used one). For example, I bought my car from a mortgage attorney who was literally desperate to sell. Three and a half years later my car is worth only slightly less than what I paid for it, despite 25k more miles.

2. If you look at production figures for the 1990's air-cooled Porsches vs. the first generation of water-cooled cars, the numbers are striking. Worldwide Porsche sold just over 68,000 993s from 2004-2008. The 996 numbers are much larger, over 127,000 cars from 1998-2004. This was a goal - simplified production methods that allowed greater volume. Not surprisingly then the relative scarcity of the 993 + the 'last of the air-cooled cars' cache makes them more valuable. This is no slight to the 996, just simple economics.

perfectlap

That's only because so few were made. Not because the 993 is faster, better handling, more reliable and less expensive to maintain over the same mileage. The 993 is none of those things.
It's simply a less developed car that was made in far more limited quantities with headlights and fenders that are popular with more people than remaining supply can accomodate.

its all incredibly ironic because the 993 is the car that nearly bankrupted Porsche, barely 2,600 sold in the U.S. in its last year during a historic boom U.S. economy when Americans were buying two of everything. Meanwhile Porsche had to sell so many 996's to save Porsche -- 33K in 2002 alone, more than all 993's sold in the U.S. from 1995-1998 --- that they've now become too plentiful. If 200+K 993's had been sold during that robust 1990's economy, today they'd be selling for $10-20K just like the 996's, yes even with the VW headlights. Not enough weekend drivers ready/brave enough to drop air-cooled engine rebuild money around to outrun that kind of hypothetical supply. A double whammy would have faced the 993, extremely expensive engines to fix and far too much supply.
Also, you might have to replace a grenaded 996 engine, or deal with an expensive engine repair costing north of $10K but that's exception not the rule to long-term 996 ownership, can't say the same thing about some air-cooled Carreras where $7-12K on engine maintenance alone is par for the course. And even with the advantage of limited supply, most 993's have not recouped their original sticker prices. Which is why they nearly went bankrupt in the first place.
Also, do you really want a car that is handily beaten on track by a Boxster S?
I mean if you can't even beat the chick car to the finish line...

TheLastTemplar

As some have mentioned in the last few posts, I have as much interest in a 993 as a I have in a Toyota Camry, meaning 0%. I love that awesome Le Mans car picture, with the 996 headlights. It makes the car look super aggressive and sexy. And I LOL'ed at the front of that VW and Porsche 993 picture, only because the front grille looks too goofy and cute. Almost like a cartoon humanization of a car, geared towards viewers aged 3-6.

As for the economy, do values of cars go up and down with the economy? Say, the US gets back to a boom cycle, would the 996 cars gradually go up/spike in price in the used market?

Since the 996s were being sold during the economic crisis of 2007-2009, their values have dropped as one user here has said... should that mean the opposite be true when times aren't tough and things improve?

I don't care too much about interiors, and not sure why people make such a big deal about it, especially 993 lovers or 996 haters (likely the same group). As long it's not an ugly color, it shouldn't matter if it's plastic or looks cheap. I prefer black and black leather to be honest, and that is what I will look out for, since it amps the coolness/sport car factor significantly. However, non leather and non black is not a deal breaker either, and unless the car had things different than a regular car, what's the big deal? Imagine if the clutch, gas pedal and gearbox were moved around to be "innovative" for the 996 series-- then I'd imagine EVERYONE would hate the interior, with good reason.

I heard the second iteration of 996's have no cupholders--big deal. I would never eat anything like a sandwich or drink coffee while I'm inside of a car. If I spilled coffee on the seats, I'd be really mad and be depressed.

Regarding the 997 dropping in value, I don't see that... is it happening now, or most assume it'll happen in a year or two since the 991 is here? Looking at eBay, the 997 Carreras-- the earliest models, are still 40 grand and higher, and these are for the boring colors like silver. 997.2 is even higher and goes for close to Lamborghini Gallardo territory.

If the 997 is dropping or will drop in value, will this affect the 996's prices as well, or has the 996 basically depreciated as far as it can technically depreciate? For example, I remember reading somewhere that 2004-2005 Gallardos have basically fallen to the bare minimum on the used market, and realistically, it can only go back up in years to come and never depreciate any further.