Budget IMSB Retrofit for $165 Thread
04-14-2016, 06:32 PM
#46
I will do more digging before I install my setup. Everytime I think I know what's going on something else pops up.. I read about LN bearing failures, was told not to buy the Vertex kit, and by god I better not leave my oem bearing in there.. Seems like no matter what I do someone is going to tell me the motor is going to be toast. I do not plan to pull seals or modify the bearing at all, just oem for oem.
04-14-2016, 06:32 PM
#47
Personally I wouldn't risk it and go with one of the tried and true products. We are talking about a ~$15k-$20k engine here.
There's still some speculation around OEM bearings that are manufactured from various countries as Porsche has used bearings with the same part numbers from no less than 5 countries that I'm aware of. I've been trying to see if there is some correlation on bearing failure tied to any specific country of manufacture but the one person that hold this info isn't willing to release that to the public.
04-14-2016, 09:39 PM
#48
I can get where Krazy K was coming from the stand point of the bearing price, and trying to see if he could go about it a different way. But with the new owner experiencing engine failure maybe due to this experiment, it makes you wonder if the IMS would have let go anyways if it had not been replaced?
Not taking sides here, but I have been researching the 996 and it seems as the forum knows the IMS update is not a guarantee that one wont experience engine failure. I think some of the members have done the update and have experienced engine failure. So when your paying in upwards of $800 for a bearing update kit or almost $3k for a "complete solution", but not guarantee, you have to wonder.
I talked to service tech who has worked for a Porsche dealership for about 20 years. I questioned him about a 996.1 that I was interested in and they have serviced it since day 1, the clutch had been done around 52k miles, but the IMS was not updated or replaced. He told me the bearing was fine and showed no signs of issues. He has opinions on the IMS update kits out there and said if Porsche felt there was an update needed, they would put one out themselves. (I took that as an opinion only, as we all know Porsche has had issues)
While I understand why the dealership would not install the IMS update kits as they would be liable for any issues that would arise, if the part was not "Porsche", it made me wonder why the IMS has become some such a heated discussion that is spilt down the middle. Is there a solution? A guarantee? There seems to be warranties but only for the bearing itself and not one that would cover the cost of a engine failure by using these update, that's too much of a liability for these companies to cover, I understand that.
So its something that the 996, 997 owners must think about when purchasing? My own personal experience has changed my opinion the IMS issue and the different aftermarket that sell "update" kits.
Not taking sides here, but I have been researching the 996 and it seems as the forum knows the IMS update is not a guarantee that one wont experience engine failure. I think some of the members have done the update and have experienced engine failure. So when your paying in upwards of $800 for a bearing update kit or almost $3k for a "complete solution", but not guarantee, you have to wonder.
I talked to service tech who has worked for a Porsche dealership for about 20 years. I questioned him about a 996.1 that I was interested in and they have serviced it since day 1, the clutch had been done around 52k miles, but the IMS was not updated or replaced. He told me the bearing was fine and showed no signs of issues. He has opinions on the IMS update kits out there and said if Porsche felt there was an update needed, they would put one out themselves. (I took that as an opinion only, as we all know Porsche has had issues)
While I understand why the dealership would not install the IMS update kits as they would be liable for any issues that would arise, if the part was not "Porsche", it made me wonder why the IMS has become some such a heated discussion that is spilt down the middle. Is there a solution? A guarantee? There seems to be warranties but only for the bearing itself and not one that would cover the cost of a engine failure by using these update, that's too much of a liability for these companies to cover, I understand that.
So its something that the 996, 997 owners must think about when purchasing? My own personal experience has changed my opinion the IMS issue and the different aftermarket that sell "update" kits.
04-14-2016, 10:02 PM
#49
Race Director
This cheap IMSB replacement thread needs to be linked to the current implosion of his car thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ong-story.html
That way, some future person reading through this thread will know not to do this.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ong-story.html
That way, some future person reading through this thread will know not to do this.
04-14-2016, 10:07 PM
#50
04-14-2016, 10:56 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
I can get where Krazy K was coming from the stand point of the bearing price, and trying to see if he could go about it a different way. But with the new owner experiencing engine failure maybe due to this experiment, it makes you wonder if the IMS would have let go anyways if it had not been replaced?
Not taking sides here, but I have been researching the 996 and it seems as the forum knows the IMS update is not a guarantee that one wont experience engine failure. I think some of the members have done the update and have experienced engine failure. So when your paying in upwards of $800 for a bearing update kit or almost $3k for a "complete solution", but not guarantee, you have to wonder.
I talked to service tech who has worked for a Porsche dealership for about 20 years. I questioned him about a 996.1 that I was interested in and they have serviced it since day 1, the clutch had been done around 52k miles, but the IMS was not updated or replaced. He told me the bearing was fine and showed no signs of issues. He has opinions on the IMS update kits out there and said if Porsche felt there was an update needed, they would put one out themselves. (I took that as an opinion only, as we all know Porsche has had issues)
While I understand why the dealership would not install the IMS update kits as they would be liable for any issues that would arise, if the part was not "Porsche", it made me wonder why the IMS has become some such a heated discussion that is spilt down the middle. Is there a solution? A guarantee? There seems to be warranties but only for the bearing itself and not one that would cover the cost of a engine failure by using these update, that's too much of a liability for these companies to cover, I understand that.
So its something that the 996, 997 owners must think about when purchasing? My own personal experience has changed my opinion the IMS issue and the different aftermarket that sell "update" kits.
Not taking sides here, but I have been researching the 996 and it seems as the forum knows the IMS update is not a guarantee that one wont experience engine failure. I think some of the members have done the update and have experienced engine failure. So when your paying in upwards of $800 for a bearing update kit or almost $3k for a "complete solution", but not guarantee, you have to wonder.
I talked to service tech who has worked for a Porsche dealership for about 20 years. I questioned him about a 996.1 that I was interested in and they have serviced it since day 1, the clutch had been done around 52k miles, but the IMS was not updated or replaced. He told me the bearing was fine and showed no signs of issues. He has opinions on the IMS update kits out there and said if Porsche felt there was an update needed, they would put one out themselves. (I took that as an opinion only, as we all know Porsche has had issues)
While I understand why the dealership would not install the IMS update kits as they would be liable for any issues that would arise, if the part was not "Porsche", it made me wonder why the IMS has become some such a heated discussion that is spilt down the middle. Is there a solution? A guarantee? There seems to be warranties but only for the bearing itself and not one that would cover the cost of a engine failure by using these update, that's too much of a liability for these companies to cover, I understand that.
So its something that the 996, 997 owners must think about when purchasing? My own personal experience has changed my opinion the IMS issue and the different aftermarket that sell "update" kits.
04-14-2016, 10:56 PM
#53
I am cross referencing my post to this thread so others do not make the same mistake as KK.
The information I'm about to talk about is not in the spec sheet. I had to use one of my textbooks from college to get this information.
This chart is used to determine your dynamic and static load rating for an equation used to figure out the life cycle of a bearing. Before I did any math, I noticed the load ratings are very similar, indicating to me the bearing KK used appears to be a 02 series deep groove ball bearing.
All bearing part numbers are made up of a type code, series, and bore. The second digit is what we're interested in as that indicates the robustness of the bearing. A number 2 series bearing indicates it should only be used for light duty applications. The item ID for the bearing used is 6204. The 6 indicates it is a roller ball bearing, 2 for light duty, and 04 for a 20mm bore. (Except for 0 through 3, the bore size is simply five times the third and fourth digits together) The spec sheet and item ID lead me to conclude the reason the bearing failed is that it's only a light duty bearing. As a mechanical engineer, and a human being with common sense, would not recommend this bearing for this application.
The information I'm about to talk about is not in the spec sheet. I had to use one of my textbooks from college to get this information.
This chart is used to determine your dynamic and static load rating for an equation used to figure out the life cycle of a bearing. Before I did any math, I noticed the load ratings are very similar, indicating to me the bearing KK used appears to be a 02 series deep groove ball bearing.
All bearing part numbers are made up of a type code, series, and bore. The second digit is what we're interested in as that indicates the robustness of the bearing. A number 2 series bearing indicates it should only be used for light duty applications. The item ID for the bearing used is 6204. The 6 indicates it is a roller ball bearing, 2 for light duty, and 04 for a 20mm bore. (Except for 0 through 3, the bore size is simply five times the third and fourth digits together) The spec sheet and item ID lead me to conclude the reason the bearing failed is that it's only a light duty bearing. As a mechanical engineer, and a human being with common sense, would not recommend this bearing for this application.
Last edited by sweet victory; 04-15-2016 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Missed a word.
04-14-2016, 11:14 PM
#54
I am cross referencing my post to this thread so others do not make the mistake as KK.
The information I'm about to talk about is not in the spec sheet. I had to use one of my textbooks from college to get this information.
This chart is used to determine your dynamic and static load rating for an equation used to figure out the life cycle of a bearing. Before I did any math, I noticed the load ratings are very similar, indicating to me the bearing KK used appears to be a 02 series deep groove ball bearing.
All bearing part numbers are made up of a type code, series, and bore. The second digit is what we're interested in as that indicates the robustness of the bearing. A number 2 series bearing indicates it should only be used for light duty applications. The item ID for the bearing used is 6204. The 6 indicates it is a roller bearing, 2 for light duty, and 04 for a 20mm bore. (Except for 0 through 3, the bore size is simply five times the third and fourth digits together) The spec sheet and item ID lead me to conclude the reason the bearing failed is that it's only a light duty bearing. As a mechanical engineer, and a human being with common sense, would not recommend this bearing for this application.
The information I'm about to talk about is not in the spec sheet. I had to use one of my textbooks from college to get this information.
This chart is used to determine your dynamic and static load rating for an equation used to figure out the life cycle of a bearing. Before I did any math, I noticed the load ratings are very similar, indicating to me the bearing KK used appears to be a 02 series deep groove ball bearing.
All bearing part numbers are made up of a type code, series, and bore. The second digit is what we're interested in as that indicates the robustness of the bearing. A number 2 series bearing indicates it should only be used for light duty applications. The item ID for the bearing used is 6204. The 6 indicates it is a roller bearing, 2 for light duty, and 04 for a 20mm bore. (Except for 0 through 3, the bore size is simply five times the third and fourth digits together) The spec sheet and item ID lead me to conclude the reason the bearing failed is that it's only a light duty bearing. As a mechanical engineer, and a human being with common sense, would not recommend this bearing for this application.
Your post would indicate that it is a light duty bearing. If the same scale applies to dual row
04-14-2016, 11:28 PM
#55
Yes. The catalog you used to find that part should have a nomenclature guide. From lightest to heaviest duty, 8,9,0,1,2,3, and 4. (Not very intuitive I know) I don't know if a 4 series ball bearing in this size exists. You should be able to find a 3 series no problem.
04-14-2016, 11:45 PM
#56
Yes. The catalog you used to find that part should have a nomenclature guide. From lightest to heaviest duty, 8,9,0,1,2,3, and 4. (Not very intuitive I know) I don't know if a 4 series ball bearing in this size exists. You should be able to find a 3 series no problem.
http://www.skf.com/group/products/bearings-units-housings/ball-bearings/angular-contact-ball-bearings/double-row-angular-contact-ball-bearings/double-row/index.html?designation=3204%20A-2RS1TN9/MT33
04-15-2016, 12:01 AM
#58
Also apparently changing the 2 (second digit) changes the bearing dimension too for SKF.. So I can't just assume that would indicate the correct part for me.
04-15-2016, 12:29 AM
#60
