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IMS bearing failure for your 996, Y or N? tell us (yr, 996 Mk1 or MK2 failure mode)

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IMS bearing failure for your 996, Y or N? tell us (yr, 996 Mk1 or MK2 failure mode)

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Old 01-26-2018, 05:24 PM
  #946  
Flat6 Innovations
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Originally Posted by Einsteiger View Post
OK. Thanks for the clarification. Again, this shop is LN qualified and experienced. I regret posting, now.
LN does not “qualify” installers. Their preferred installer program is a paid service.

Mr. Raby Certifies the IMS Solution Certified Installers. These shops are required to perform their work via a very specific code of conduct. The biggest issue that will lead to a Certified Installer losing their certification is poor judgment when executing Retrofit procedures. Retrofitting an engine that has debris laden oil, or an in- process bearing failure is strictly forbidden.

If this shop is a Certified Installer, I know what’s coming their way, and it will not be pretty. Second chances are not extended. Taking these sorts of risks puts the reputation of the Retrofit products in jeopardy, as nothing can live through debris laden oil.

Do do not regret posting. There are practices that can be carried out to lessen the chances of the new bearing being damaged by residual debris from the prior bearing. Had you not posted this would not have been known.

This does impact the product warranty. I’d recommend calling LN Engineering for directives.
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Old 01-26-2018, 05:54 PM
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You sir, are assuming a great deal. The checklist was followed....I asked...but I will not further participate in your 'trial by web' of an independent shop.

Good day.
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:14 PM
  #948  
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Originally Posted by Einsteiger View Post
OK. Thanks for the clarification. Again, this shop is LN qualified and experienced. I regret posting, now.
I won't jump to any conclusions here. You may have dodged a bullet, but there are plenty of instances where an original bearing, even if not omitting debris or isn't completely failed, wouldn't be the only item that could disqualify an engine from having any procedure carried out. We commonly turn down cars to carry out jobs because there could be other problems that compromise the work or parts to be fitted. I don't have all the facts, so I'm not going to say that this is the case in your instance, but all parties need to go into this wide open and understand the consequences if something goes awry, as it has before, and then I'm the one to blame for making an inferior product.

If you can please can do the the favor of PM'ing me the shop doing the work, I would like to keep an eye out for your registration so I know which shop to expect it from. I would like to first hand see the bearing that came out (which is a normal part of our registration process). Likewise, if I don't receive the registration, I can reach out to you and let you know.

If the shop is a Preferred Installer, we still require them to register installations and carry out the proper pre-qualification to ensure customers have a positive experience and we have revoked installer's status for not following our procedures and recommendations.
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:24 PM
  #949  
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Originally Posted by Flat6 Innovations View Post


LN does not “qualify” installers. Their preferred installer program is a paid service.

Mr. Raby Certifies the IMS Solution Certified Installers. These shops are required to perform their work via a very specific code of conduct. The biggest issue that will lead to a Certified Installer losing their certification is poor judgment when executing Retrofit procedures. Retrofitting an engine that has debris laden oil, or an in- process bearing failure is strictly forbidden.

If this shop is a Certified Installer, I know what’s coming their way, and it will not be pretty. Second chances are not extended. Taking these sorts of risks puts the reputation of the Retrofit products in jeopardy, as nothing can live through debris laden oil.

Do do not regret posting. There are practices that can be carried out to lessen the chances of the new bearing being damaged by residual debris from the prior bearing. Had you not posted this would not have been known.

This does impact the product warranty. I’d recommend calling LN Engineering for directives.
Spot on. There are reasons we have pre-qualifications in place. When an IMS bearing is fitted in an engine that shouldn't be installed and it fails, I'm the one that gets the demand letter. It's easier to be a victim than a failure.

Correct, the Preferred Installer program is a paid program. However, we do require pre-qualification and registration of installations. We field dozens of calls daily for customers looking to have a bearing installed, and the piece of mind of having shops that follow our directives is added value. But no, we do not train the shops.

The training provided by The Knowledge Gruppe by Jake Raby and Tony Callas and subsequent certification they provide for IMS Solution installers is on a whole other level.

And no, using a Preferred or Certified Installer isn't required, but it does add a level of safety when choosing a shop. You still have to do your homework and make the decision of who does your install and make sure that they follow through with the required procedures, even though it will cost more money than a fly by night shop that low-***** the IMS job.
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Old 01-27-2018, 10:26 AM
  #950  
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Isn't part of being a certified installer and the warranty involve sending the bearing back to LN? If this is the case, LN will be receiving the old bearing and can analyse whether it was failing to the point that the car should have been disqualified or not.

To LN, how much play in the bearing constitutes failing pre-qualification? If the bearing isn't shedding any metal but has play in it does that disqualify?
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Old 01-27-2018, 10:41 AM
  #951  
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Originally Posted by Einsteiger View Post
You sir, are assuming a great deal. The checklist was followed....I asked...but I will not further participate in your 'trial by web' of an independent shop.

Good day.
You sir, are an idiot. But as they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
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Old 01-27-2018, 02:36 PM
  #952  
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Wink 01 996 MK1 auto 120000 running strong

01 996 MK1 automatic 120000 running strong still
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Old 01-27-2018, 03:10 PM
  #953  
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Originally Posted by Cosmo Kramer View Post
Isn't part of being a certified installer and the warranty involve sending the bearing back to LN? If this is the case, LN will be receiving the old bearing and can analyse whether it was failing to the point that the car should have been disqualified or not.

To LN, how much play in the bearing constitutes failing pre-qualification? If the bearing isn't shedding any metal but has play in it does that disqualify?
If the bearing has any indication that debris has been generated by and released into the engine, there is a chance the foreign object debris can damage something else. The original poster mentioned non-metallic debris which can be one of many wear pads or chain ramps. It's certainly a judgement call about whether or not you can can retrofit an engine based off what you find during the pre-installation qualification. A good litmus test is cam timing deviation - if more than 5 degrees, the engine shouldn't be retrofitted.

The truth of the matter is that most shops don't register installations and if the bearing is going bad, we rarely get those sent back to us. I'd probably say once in the last decade have we had a shop be honest that they put in a bearing when the original one was failing and supply us the bearing and even then, the engine did end up loosing the replacement IMS bearing within 1000 miles.
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Old 02-24-2018, 02:15 PM
  #954  
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2002 Cabrio 6MT, 110,900 miles. The IMS looked perfect. New Clutch/AOS/RMS and new LN IMS retro and good to go for many more miles.
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:52 PM
  #955  
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2001 C4 with 74K miles no issues with IMS bearing yet.....
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:23 AM
  #956  
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Default 2001 996 C2 Tip Cab - early dual row, 73,300kms, 20,000kms on new IMS

Looks just like the pics on the web. No carrier left whatsoever. About 6 ***** in the general location. Cover was not leaking. The engine was replaced and it failed over a year ago. i finally inspected it on the weekend.
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Old 04-10-2018, 12:50 PM
  #957  
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Originally Posted by TheBird View Post
Looks just like the pics on the web. No carrier left whatsoever. About 6 ***** in the general location. Cover was not leaking. The engine was replaced and it failed over a year ago. i finally inspected it on the weekend.
Did it originally have a duel row bearing? Most 2001s had the single row. Was it replaced with another duel row that failed after only 20k miles?
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:05 PM
  #958  
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It is a transition model year and this is an earlier engine. The receipt for the work said single row but it was definitely a dual row that was in there...
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:29 PM
  #959  
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Originally Posted by TheBird View Post
It is a transition model year and this is an earlier engine. The receipt for the work said single row but it was definitely a dual row that was in there...
Are those threads stripped in the lower left?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:41 PM
  #960  
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No i think that was thread locker. When they come apart they sure come APART!
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