Changing out those old motor mounts well worth it
12-08-2012, 10:39 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Changing out those old motor mounts well worth it
Like they say, it ain't the miles, it's the years. My'02 only has 48k miles on it, but I've noticed the passenger seat shaking for at least 2 years and 6k+ miles ago. Until I read a bunch of motor mount threads here, I just assumed it was normal. Then I noticed the drivers side tail pipe was lower than the passenger side, and it clicked. Turns out both motor mounts had sagged a lot and I FINALLY drove it today after changing out the water pump, T-stat, AOS, oil filler tube, oil cooler o-rings (another very worthwhile check and change, pics to follow on a different thread), serp belt, and the motor mounts (Rein) from Pelican. Wow, what a difference. Night and day. Shifting is much easier, vibration is GONE, tailpipes are almost exactly even, and got sucked up at least 1/2" higher. Really guys, a very easy $180 1 hour R&R if you're doing nothing else, and the results are very, very worth while. (nothing like the hell of the water pump and AOS, but had I not done it myself, I wouldn't have known the coolant o-rings were shot on the oil cooler) Transformed would be an over statement (PSS9s or 10s transforms the car), but I was fairly shocked at the improvements. Still have to do some spirited driving but it can only get better.
Last edited by perryinva; 12-13-2012 at 06:19 PM.
12-09-2012, 12:05 AM
#3
Interesting, my car has the EXACT same symptoms. Passenger seat with the shakes (worse if I am on the brakes stopped at a light vs. not on the brakes) and the lower driver side exhaust. '02 with 66k on the chassis, 8k on the engine. I assume they would have reused the mounts when installing the new engine. Will probably look into this then, thanks!
12-09-2012, 12:46 AM
#4
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Completely agree that fresh mounts can make a big difference. The thing is they go bad slowly and you never realize it. Like some are suggesting...go and change them out. It really is easy.
12-09-2012, 01:11 AM
#5
Rocky Mountain High
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I'm considering the RS motor mounts...
12-09-2012, 01:53 AM
#6
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Wevo yellow pillows.
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12-09-2012, 08:59 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Yes, I took pics also, and mine were identical to what KrazyK posted, with the drivers side worse and canted. I did nothing to the top bolts except torque them. Walter, mine was exactly the same as you describe, far more noticeable stopped at a stop light! It was so irritating. Just do it, you will not regret it.
Unless you track the car, I doubt it's worth the extra cost to go with semi solids except for bragging rights and a little more NVH. (but that may just be my wallet talking. I spent over $900 just in parts doing all this. An extra $200 for the small possible improvement just didn't seem worth it). Personally, if the people that put the semi's on had just put new regular ones on, I think they would have been just as impressed, if their originals were as unknowingly bad as mine. When they reported that there were all the improvements I described, but a bit more NVH and cabin noise, I decided not to go that route. By the way, according to Pelican, the only "best" (Rein) standard motor mounts they carry are the stiffer turbo ones. If you want the softer non turbos, they have a cheaper, non-OE brand. I got the Reins, and went with "TT" part numbers) My car has only seen a track twice, and both times before I had done all the improvements (PSS9s, ROW ARBs, PS2s, etc. etc) so now I'm jonesing to try her out again next year.
I have to add, that it is much easier and faster to do this if you have the right lifting apparatus. If you have to use just jack and stands, etc, it takes longer to get the car in the air than to change the mounts. I bought an EZCarlift a few years back during their first huge group buy and only paid $1275. Man, I love that thng. Saved me hours (more) of frustration during the last 2 weekends with all this work. Pics to follow.
Unless you track the car, I doubt it's worth the extra cost to go with semi solids except for bragging rights and a little more NVH. (but that may just be my wallet talking. I spent over $900 just in parts doing all this. An extra $200 for the small possible improvement just didn't seem worth it). Personally, if the people that put the semi's on had just put new regular ones on, I think they would have been just as impressed, if their originals were as unknowingly bad as mine. When they reported that there were all the improvements I described, but a bit more NVH and cabin noise, I decided not to go that route. By the way, according to Pelican, the only "best" (Rein) standard motor mounts they carry are the stiffer turbo ones. If you want the softer non turbos, they have a cheaper, non-OE brand. I got the Reins, and went with "TT" part numbers) My car has only seen a track twice, and both times before I had done all the improvements (PSS9s, ROW ARBs, PS2s, etc. etc) so now I'm jonesing to try her out again next year.
I have to add, that it is much easier and faster to do this if you have the right lifting apparatus. If you have to use just jack and stands, etc, it takes longer to get the car in the air than to change the mounts. I bought an EZCarlift a few years back during their first huge group buy and only paid $1275. Man, I love that thng. Saved me hours (more) of frustration during the last 2 weekends with all this work. Pics to follow.
Last edited by perryinva; 12-23-2012 at 12:17 AM.
12-09-2012, 09:44 AM
#9
how did you see the oil cooler o ring problem, those are pretty far from the water pump no ? where are they located ? I am not sure I know what is the oil cooler... are you talking about the AOS ?
12-09-2012, 10:46 AM
#10
RL Community Team
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Thanks for the comments about the engine mounts. You have convinced me that I should do mine sooner rather than later.
Cheers,
TomF
12-09-2012, 04:05 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
OK, but only because you asked..LOL. The oil cooler is located roughly in the same place as the AOS, but on the other (mirror) side. A little more inboard, like where the vacuum storage container is on the left side. From under the car, if you look on the opposite side from where you see the AOS, but the same "way" you will see it.
While I was under there I saw what looked like a bubble of red at the seal area where the cooler meets the engine. When I touched it, it was crusty, and filled with liquid coolant! I took out the left intake manifold, the TB, and both cross runners to clean them out and to replace the AOS, which I was doing preemptively. ( No sign of a real issue, but the area around the AOS was fairly oily/dirty, so I suspected maybe the oil vapor inlet to the AOS was causing some of it. and it is 11 years old, so I took the plunge in to hell. )
Once you do that, the whole left side of the oil cooler is staring right at you. The right hand bolts are under the right hand manifold so that has to come out to get to them. To get that out you have to take the PS reservoir off. I did not touch the AC at all. I'm not at a computer that I can download the pics I took, but suffice to say the webs on top of that side were all filled with crusty coolant. If you broke the crust, there was wet coolant underneath there too. It seemed obvious to me that the o-rings on the coolant side were leaking under pressure/temp, not constantly, but had not breached the oil o-rings. I always had a super slow loss of coolant, that I could never find. Since I only drive maybe 3k miles a year, I though it was just maybe a faulty expansion cap (which I replaced this go around with a -04).
BTW, the right hand manifold is a total walk in the park compared to the left. I'll download pics later. I had to order new o-rings and 3 more intake manifold gaskets. If you do this, have a big absorbent towel that you can toss right there next to the oil cooler. Try to lift it straight up, do not tip it in any direction, as that causes huge amounts of coolant and oil to run out. As fast as you can slam the towel under the oil cooler then bring it where you can drain it. If you constantly tip it at angles and then return it to horizontal, it all drains out eventually.
I inspected the insides through the openings and all was shiny and clean. The coolant o-rings were shot, quite crusty on both sides, and there was a lot of wettish dried coolant stuck to the under side of the cooler. The oil ones still looked good, but of course I replaced all four, and thoroughly cleaned the cooler bottom, O-ring surfaces, and the top of the engine. I will do a periodic inspection now that I know where to look for the issue. It's doable to see with inspection mirrors.
When I ran my Airlift air removal tool to fill the coolant system back up, it held a vacuum no problem, so I have a high degree of confidence that I dodged a bullet, and it is fixed, but really, only time will tell.
While I was under there I saw what looked like a bubble of red at the seal area where the cooler meets the engine. When I touched it, it was crusty, and filled with liquid coolant! I took out the left intake manifold, the TB, and both cross runners to clean them out and to replace the AOS, which I was doing preemptively. ( No sign of a real issue, but the area around the AOS was fairly oily/dirty, so I suspected maybe the oil vapor inlet to the AOS was causing some of it. and it is 11 years old, so I took the plunge in to hell. )
Once you do that, the whole left side of the oil cooler is staring right at you. The right hand bolts are under the right hand manifold so that has to come out to get to them. To get that out you have to take the PS reservoir off. I did not touch the AC at all. I'm not at a computer that I can download the pics I took, but suffice to say the webs on top of that side were all filled with crusty coolant. If you broke the crust, there was wet coolant underneath there too. It seemed obvious to me that the o-rings on the coolant side were leaking under pressure/temp, not constantly, but had not breached the oil o-rings. I always had a super slow loss of coolant, that I could never find. Since I only drive maybe 3k miles a year, I though it was just maybe a faulty expansion cap (which I replaced this go around with a -04).
BTW, the right hand manifold is a total walk in the park compared to the left. I'll download pics later. I had to order new o-rings and 3 more intake manifold gaskets. If you do this, have a big absorbent towel that you can toss right there next to the oil cooler. Try to lift it straight up, do not tip it in any direction, as that causes huge amounts of coolant and oil to run out. As fast as you can slam the towel under the oil cooler then bring it where you can drain it. If you constantly tip it at angles and then return it to horizontal, it all drains out eventually.
I inspected the insides through the openings and all was shiny and clean. The coolant o-rings were shot, quite crusty on both sides, and there was a lot of wettish dried coolant stuck to the under side of the cooler. The oil ones still looked good, but of course I replaced all four, and thoroughly cleaned the cooler bottom, O-ring surfaces, and the top of the engine. I will do a periodic inspection now that I know where to look for the issue. It's doable to see with inspection mirrors.
When I ran my Airlift air removal tool to fill the coolant system back up, it held a vacuum no problem, so I have a high degree of confidence that I dodged a bullet, and it is fixed, but really, only time will tell.
12-09-2012, 08:08 PM
#13
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As for motor mounts, I race on those TT mounts and they work great and have lasted over 2 years now. Again the Wevo's or RS's are stiffer, but unnecessary....
12-09-2012, 08:54 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I lot of people want to go with a stiffer mount all becasue "thats what the race guys use". This is a bad idea. The stiffer mounts trip the knock sensor and retard the spark resulting in a loss of power.
Remember a car built for the track prolly has most the emission items removed or disabled. Just cuz "the race guys" use it doesnt mean its best for the road.
Remember a car built for the track prolly has most the emission items removed or disabled. Just cuz "the race guys" use it doesnt mean its best for the road.
