KrazyK

OK so I guess the lesson we all learned from this is, dont buy a used 996 track car with a half-a$$ deep sump mod then track it until it blows? Sorry Bro but when you looked over this car and saw the track mods, you should have walked away from it instead of being impressed with the high dollar track stuff.

This is pointless.

slicer

^ This post has a point.


^ This post is pointless.

Pmuney

22K!?? Does anyone even own a non-turbo 996 that they believe is worth 22K? What does the history of the car have to do with the car suffering from an oil starvation issue on the track one day? I for one appreciate the information. I see a lot of posts where the owner of the destroyed engine won't talk finances. Slicer put numbers to the issue which should help people who end up needing a rebuild/swap

KNS

We will soon reach a point when no one will opt for a factory replacement engine due to the cost of the engine and the relative value of the car. This is why rebuilders will become more and more important.

Several years ago when I owned a 1980 911SC I priced a new factory replacement engine (just curious). At the time - yes, it was available - it was $30,000. The value of my SC at that time was around $14,000. No one then, as now, buys replacement air cooled motors from the factory, they have them rebuilt (or rebuild it themselves).

If $30,000 was a lot of money then for a factory replacement air cooled motor, do you think $22,000 is a lot of money for one now?

KrazyK

Pmuney, there are many clean non-turbo 996's that are worth more than $22K. Some of them, depending on model and options, C2, C4S, Targa, Cab, etc. had MSRP's over $90K making clean ones now quite the bargain. Even if more than $22K.

The point is, take care of your engine before you destroy it and you wont need a Porsche reman engine for $17K (with good core). I have never agreed with the oil/fluid change intervals recommended by Porsche. Oil is cheap compared to a new engine, trans, dif, etc.

My change intervals:
oil/filter: 3K or 4 months
trans, dif,: 1 year
brake flush: 1 year

I know I will never reach the mileage intervals, so I will mostly go by time. The more time working on, in, or under your car, the more likely you are to find something before its too late.

tks12

Oh my, THIS is not good!!!

your only 12. miles from me!! The old tech in me, wants to come by and meet you!, one of us is doomed! <big grin>

Tom

Flat6 Innovations

That's odd.. I thought we already knew the entire local Porsche following here.. Been in the same place since I started this all in 1992.

Sure, we'd love to meet you, call dean to set up an appointment. Fridays are always best.

tks12

I have only been on here a week, and thanks! I would love to!, not sure if I can drive the car bye, depends if my wife leaves it, I can't seem to get her out of it <g>

I sent you a pm, easy for me to keep the info handy

Emmanuel

I hate to revive this thread but could not resist. I been reading this with interest, it seems you guys are running around in circle. The truth is and I am relatively new to the Porsche world although I had my 2006 997 for over 4 years without any problem other than a blown oil pressure sensor. But I am not new to the car and vintage car world having owned many exotics and muscle cars some of them wet sump and other dry sump.
Truth is:

Porsche was broke in the late 90s' and it needed to improve margins in order to survive. The 993 their flagship was rapidly becoming obsolete and too costly to build. So they decided to design the new 996 with about the same mechanicals as the newly released Boxter their entry level car (A modern 914 iteration). Truth is, most Porsche owners do not track their cars so the new much cheapened design would be fine for 99% of owners. In order not to scare their customers too much they would call their wet sump design "Integrated Dry Sump" which is complete BS, it's just a basic wet sump. There is one caveat however, the architecture of the boxer engine itself, in a vertical in-line design or an almost vertical V design, because oil just has to go down to return to the sump, wet sump works relatively well but on a flat design, you need to push the oil back to the sump and gravity wont do it, especially under high Gs in a track situation. Dry sump is by far the best design for racing cars or Motorcycles because one is assured of a constant supply of oil in any condition but it is quite expensive often requiring 2, 3 or even 4 pumps to operate properly, many hoses and an oil tank. It also provides superior cooling and can be easily outfitted with oil coolers.
So Porsche cheapened the car, built it more efficiently and became very profitable again. Actually, under most situation the M96 motor is more reliable and cheaper to maintain than the old air cooled one. No more oil leaks, plugged air exhaust ports etc. A few car were blowing up and those were fixed under warranty at the beginning but Porsche was still making tons of money, they built and sold more cars than ever before. Performance was increased, the new car was faster, had better handling than the 993.
For the Turbo and the GT series, they realized they could not use the M96 engine reliably so they used a water cooled design which can be traced to the GT1 and ultimately to the old traditional air cooled motor. But this engine is complicated, expensive, somewhat antiquated in its architecture with many parts and would not be readily feasible for a bread and butter daily drive car.
In this case I think Slicer is probably right that the M96 engine is probably not the best choice for a track car, at least in stock form. Although, in this case the engine had been "Mickey Moused" by a previous owner. Had the motor been stock with a proper oil pick-up, it may have been fine at least for a while.

My two cents!

NZ951

My thoughts exactly. And had unknown track miles on it... all cars that get thrashed for hours at the track get engine damage.

tomofva

Interesting thread.

I'm searching for my next Porsche and was wondering; is the 2009 a dry sump motor? I'm torn between a 996 TT or a 997.2. They are similar in price, but which is the more reliable build?

It's six months later..Slicer, how do you like your Cayman?

slicer

The Cayman is great and has been trouble free so far (15k miles). It hasn't been to the track so I can't speak to its durability in that environment. 996tt's have dry sump Metzger motor which has a strong racing pedigree. 996tt's are not without issues but its a great motor. It depends what you are trying do with the car but the DFI engine is solid (to my knowledge) and a newer car with a warranty is always nice. If you want a car that is tunable for lots of power, and you are comfortable without a warranty, then a 996tt is the best bang for the buck.

Throttle

Great information and appreciative you shared. Clealry opinion will differ on where to lay balance but the fact that youmtookmtime to share will likely save a few people similar fates. At least people will know to ask if about the spacer if doing a sump pump mod.

vintage-racer

Great info...Thanks for the write up.

Schnell Gelb

Slicer did those of us who are trying to remedy the M96 shortcomings a favor - by mentioning a few products that help. What I find astonishing is how expensive the mods are-particularly when you add labor to the part price.
For example:
1.The Suncoast/Motorsports AOS upgrade is $1400
2. Accusump $500+ or a Techno sump from Pedros Garage -$500
or X51 baffle kit $300
3. Direct oil feed+IMS bearing upgrade $800+ Pedro ,Ln and others
To continue Slicer's good work, a consensus on what are the best upgrade products (& why) would be very useful.
Then there are all the engine mods that are a real option because you have to rebuild the engine anyway!
1. Oil pump drive
2. Mousehole or relief of the bottoms of the adjacent cylinder bores -to reduce crankcase pressurization
3. Upgraded cylinder head bolts/studs
A definitive list of all the upgrades both large and small would do much to prop up the value of these M96 engined cars and prevent successive engine failures.One failure is bad but second/third time failures is very $ad.
Thanks Slicer!