996 Engine Failure and Lessons Learned
11-16-2012, 05:08 PM
#91
Slicer, I commend you for keeping your cool while under fire. Certainly not fair to you, especially when you are just trying help others avoid the same fate. I suffered an IMS failure on my engine and I cannot tell you how many times I have been told to “beat it” when recommending the LN upgrade to other M96 owners.
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Insaty (07-21-2023)
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Insaty (07-21-2023)
11-16-2012, 05:13 PM
#93
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Good grief. The drama and histrionics in this thread is so overblown (pardon the pun) that some of you should be on Jerry Springer.
The M96 engine in it's factory form - is a perfectly reliable and capable track car. I do 6 to 8 track events a YEAR. On average there are 50 cars - of which 40 are M96 derived engine cars - and when I talk to the other drivers most of them are stock - as is mine. We drive these things for 5 hours or so flat out.
In the 3 years I've been doing it - about 20 events in total - I'VE NEVER HEARD OF AN ENGINE BLOWING UP DUE TO OIL STARVATION. I have seen people blow an AOS, blow a coolant hose - both of which shuts down the track for an hour or so while they clean the crap up.
SH*T HAPPENS and I'm sorry your car blew up on you Slicer and we'll never NEVER know if this would have been avoided if the car was kept stock, or the modification was done properly. SO the only conclusion I can come to is that the improper modification contributed to oil starvation.
As for the rest of you that are scared to track this car - your loss.
The M96 engine in it's factory form - is a perfectly reliable and capable track car. I do 6 to 8 track events a YEAR. On average there are 50 cars - of which 40 are M96 derived engine cars - and when I talk to the other drivers most of them are stock - as is mine. We drive these things for 5 hours or so flat out.
In the 3 years I've been doing it - about 20 events in total - I'VE NEVER HEARD OF AN ENGINE BLOWING UP DUE TO OIL STARVATION. I have seen people blow an AOS, blow a coolant hose - both of which shuts down the track for an hour or so while they clean the crap up.
SH*T HAPPENS and I'm sorry your car blew up on you Slicer and we'll never NEVER know if this would have been avoided if the car was kept stock, or the modification was done properly. SO the only conclusion I can come to is that the improper modification contributed to oil starvation.
As for the rest of you that are scared to track this car - your loss.
I have said this multiple times in this thread and I will now say it again - I have based my recommendations NOT ONLY on my personal experience BUT ALSO on the information that I gained from talking to the professionals who specialize in this engine. I spent hours of my time educating myself and graciously shared the info I learned. It's posts like yours that make me regret doing so.
Last edited by slicer; 11-16-2012 at 06:54 PM.
11-16-2012, 05:19 PM
#94
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
2 - I was quickly developing a love for it on the track prior to its demise.
3 - I love how you and others seem to have an intimate knowledge of how my car was driven by myself and the previous owner. Thereby giving you the ability to discredit everything I have shared / recommended.
It's posts like this that make me wish I would have never taken my time to share the info I learned.
11-16-2012, 05:23 PM
#95
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think his point was that he was frustrated by the IMS design flaw and shares my dissatisfaction with the engine design based on that weakness.
An intersting thought: What if my upgraded IMS bearing would have failed during my incident? Would you all have been saying that the failure was due to "my improper modification"?
It get's to a point.... Even if my failure was 100% due to the "Deep Sump Kit" installed in my car by the previous owner (remember none of us are 100% sure that was the actual cause), why did the PO install the kit in the first place? The answer is: Due to the know oil starvation issue with this engine.
Please accept my apologies for sharing the information I learned.
Last edited by slicer; 11-16-2012 at 08:26 PM.
11-16-2012, 05:27 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I am on OP side. If for no other reason than I frequent this website. I recently bought a 2001 996 and it is my daily driver; I find myself checking for oil leaks, coolant leaks, and the sound of marbles everyday. I don't know many other vehicles that have this many CATASTROPHIC problems (Chrysler 300 maybe?). I wouldnt care if the crate engines were 7-8K, but now that they are 12-15K that's just crazy talk.
Some people beleive that Porsche was subsidizing the engine cost in the past due to the frequent failures. I'm sure this statement will cause another freak out from some of the passionate posters on this thread....
11-16-2012, 05:30 PM
#97
I get it. What makes me crazy is the frankly stupid tendency to lump every bad thing that happens to this engine into one meme. The intermediate shaft design was a mistake on Porsche's part. There is much else about this engine that's amazing. And your situation, in the absence of specific learning, needs to be treated as an interesting anomaly from which fellow trackies might learn something. I just don't get why people find that so hard.
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Insaty (07-21-2023)
11-16-2012, 05:32 PM
#98
Or just maybe.. maybe... just maybe replacement engines were cheaper when they were still in production.
11-16-2012, 05:37 PM
#99
Yes BruceP, we all know his IMS was fine. The point was that sometimes it’s not worth the effort trying to share what you have learned. Slicer wants to help people avoid oil starvation and I compared that to how I have tried to help people avoid IMS failures. Next thing you know you are on page 7 of an out of control post wondering how did you get here when you were just trying help?
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Insaty (07-21-2023)
11-16-2012, 05:41 PM
#100
Burning Brakes
I, for one, thank you for taking the time. I'm sure many more read this, were glad to read it, just didn't comment. Don't take the comments personally, there is no reason to. Seriously, $22k + install now....WOOF! Now I see why Jake says he's got to raise his prices...
I'm curious, does anyone know if a crate 993 engine can still be bought?
I'm curious, does anyone know if a crate 993 engine can still be bought?
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Insaty (07-21-2023)
11-16-2012, 05:42 PM
#101
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I get it. What makes me crazy is the frankly stupid tendency to lump every bad thing that happens to this engine into one meme. The intermediate shaft design was a mistake on Porsche's part. There is much else about this engine that's amazing. And your situation, in the absence of specific learning, needs to be treated as an interesting anomaly from which fellow trackies might learn something. I just don't get why people find that so hard.
1 - educate themselves on possible upgrades to consider prior to tracking
2 - understand the risks of tracking the car
3 - understand the risks of owning a M96
4 - know what problems and/or warning signs to look out for
The thread has somewhat turned into me defending my situation and perspective on the car. It's true that I'm not a fan of the 996. I have had a bad experience with it. I spent a week hating Porsche as a whole. After I reflected on things and cooled off, I have limited my dislike to the M96 motor. Obviously I have not completely given up on the brand considering I have a Cayman in route....
11-16-2012, 05:44 PM
#102
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I, for one, thank you for taking the time. I'm sure many more read this, were glad to read it, just didn't comment. Don't take the comments personally, there is no reason to. Seriously, $22k + install now....WOOF! Now I see why Jake says he's got to raise his prices...
I'm curious, does anyone know if a crate 993 engine can still be bought?
I'm curious, does anyone know if a crate 993 engine can still be bought?
11-16-2012, 06:41 PM
#103
Racer
Thank you Slicer for bringing this oil starvation topic up. Only 7 months in the PCar world, I hadn't had the chance to get educated on this topic yet. You made it happen, warts and all: I'm grateful!
Some other OPs like you had to suffer the same fate as you just did on the IMS bearing issue but, in the end, they also were highly instrumental in educating folks like me on some of the peculiarities of the M96. They suffered the philosophers, but in the end, we all gained as a group of spirited Porsche drivers.
It is all good and never take it personally!
Enjoy your upcoming ride, you and your wife deserve it!
Bonne chance, mon ami!
Martin
Some other OPs like you had to suffer the same fate as you just did on the IMS bearing issue but, in the end, they also were highly instrumental in educating folks like me on some of the peculiarities of the M96. They suffered the philosophers, but in the end, we all gained as a group of spirited Porsche drivers.
It is all good and never take it personally!
Enjoy your upcoming ride, you and your wife deserve it!
Bonne chance, mon ami!
Martin
11-16-2012, 06:54 PM
#104
Yes BruceP, we all know his IMS was fine. The point was that sometimes it’s not worth the effort trying to share what you have learned. Slicer wants to help people avoid oil starvation and I compared that to how I have tried to help people avoid IMS failures. Next thing you know you are on page 7 of an out of control post wondering how did you get here when you were just trying help?
