Luxter

Just so I understand, Lubrizol formulated DT40 or provided additive pack for DT40? Please clarify.
Cheers,
=L=

KrazyK

I believe JR has been pretty clear on this matter:

Schnell Gelb

For the few who have a technical ,rather than emotional interest in this subject, there is data showing the inferiority of Mobil 1 compared to JGDT40. Since this comparison was done the JGDT40 formulation may have been further improved
Just scroll down to the bottom of this page:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...087230094.html
There are lots of oils with high ZDDP. Excessive ZDDP will 'poison' the cats. So 'more is better' has limits.For example, Mobil 1 5-40"Turbo Diesel"has more ZDDP than regular Mobil 1.
The question is the balance in the additive package.
I linked an old comparative list some time ago from BITOG for film strength and ZDDP. Motorcraft 5-50 was surprisingly good in that comparison JGibbs was included in the list.
But there is way more to the issue than just two factors in the additive package.
11. 5W50 Castrol Edge with Syntec API SN, synthetic, formerly Castrol Syntec, black bottle = 75,409 psi
zinc = 1252 ppm
phos = 1197 ppm
ZDDP = 1200 ppm

8. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil synthetic = 86,270 psi
zinc = 1247 ppm
phos = 1137 ppm
ZDDP = 1100 ppm

3. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
ZDDP = 1500 ppm

For the oil Geeks only:
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836
http://www.intellidog.com/dieselmann/powers~1.htm
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/255/oil-foam
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Flat6 Innovations

I gathered all my own data. I believe nothing of what I hear, and only 1/2 of what I see.

That said, Lubrizol makes the additive packages and formulates the Driven oils, just like they do for the US Military.

Warren Buffet owns Lubrizol, pretty much all development is done with an open checkbook.

The amount of Engineers on staff doesn't mean a damn thing to me.

addysdaddy

Did u notice a difference in the car's performance switching to the Motul?

Waltheisenberg

What about Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40?

Typical Properties
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
SAE Grade 5W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 102
cSt @ 100ºC 14.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 151
Phosphorus 1130
Zinc 1250

Mobil's site states it's approved for use in gasoline engines: Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck also meets the API SM specification for gasoline engines used in mixed fleets.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...uck_5W-40.aspx

The advantage? Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 can be purchased at Walmart in 5 qt. containers @ $26.00.

Regarding the oil discussions, weather it's Joe Gibbs, Motul, Mobil 1, etc. neither will solve the IMS, cylinder, or other design and manufacturing issues. If anyone can conclusively prove the Porsche recommended fill was the direct cause of any of these failures, I would be extremely impressed. I've ran Mobil both conventional and synthetic in our daily drivers for two decades including BMW and Acura well over 300k and all were running perfect with no engine failures. Of course neither of these have really been known to struggle with engine design (just minor things like rear sub frames falling out on e46 M3's ). In regards to the 996\997 IMS failures, while it is true that the same sealed ball bearing design gives long reliable service life on all four corners, it’s out of its element in an internal engine environment exposed to constant hot acidic oil while trying to maintain its own internal lubricant. Again, bad choices on Porsches part or they would still be using it today. Even with all this, I still love my 996. She just needs a bit more attention.

Luxter

https://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAd...CEA-E7-12.html

Rubik

I remember reading somewhere that diesel oils have more detergent in them which is more important to a diesel engine than a gas engine. Diesel fuel inherently is more oily. The detergent impacts cylinder coating - capillary action or density - of the oil and can be more harmful in the long run than an oil designed for a gas engine.

I have switched to JG DT40 for all the reasons explained so far.

Waltheisenberg

I would generally agree with most diesel oils are not suitable for gasoline engines however Mobil clearly defines this as "meets the API SM specification for gasoline engines used in mixed fleets".

Flat6 Innovations

Ever seen a 7,000 RPM capable diesel engine before?

I've done a lot with diesel oils, for diesel applications. I am currently doing a ton of testing with the Driven DP40 Turbo diesel oil, in my loader, my Deutz tractor, my Duramax diesel GMC 2500 and my M923A2 5 ton military truck. The Deutz has almost 400 hours on the same service fill, and has only consumed 2 quarts the entire time. Last week I cut 40 acres with it in 95 degree heat, which is pretty tough for an aircooled 50HP diesel engine, running it wide open throttle for 12 solid hours.

Most diesel oils have very little inhibitors that fight aeration. Run a diesel oil hard, at high RPM for a couple of minutes (in a gas engine), and drain the oil immediately. You'll think its a German Beer, rather than engine oil.... I have seen the "head" of foam be 4" high with some diesel oils when used in these engines and the oil was quickly drained.

Diesel oils changed dramatically in 2007, when the sulfur level of fuel changed, and thats when a lot of diesel engines started using diesel exhaust fluid, and some saw catalytic converters.

It astonishes me how people will try to outsmart the problem, and spend more time and effort to use the WRONG thing for the application, rather than just buying the proper oil. Its funny when someone spends more money than they try to save by having some convoluted idea.

I have an engine here now that failed due to a polymer conflict between 2 different oils that created hard crystallized material to form in the oil sump, which blocked the oil pick up tube and shut off oil flow to a point where it tossed a connecting rod. That guy didn't listen, even when he was directed to specifically not do exactly what he did. No, that wasn't a Gibbs oil that was used. I am packing it up and sending it home to him, because he thinks he's smarter than anyone else, and he won't listen to me either. We'll see how far he gets with his repair, I bet he gives up after two days. I won't deal with a person like this; because he'll always screw with something, and its easier to be a victim, than a failure.


I haven't paid ANY attention to API ratings in at least the last decade. Once I learned how the ratings are determined, it was just a big joke. Thats pretty much the case with every rating, certification or "recommended" item.

cinellipro

Since we're talking about lubrication what about the best manual transmission oil. I use Liqui Moly 75W-90 GL-5. Wondering if the 75W-140 or a mix of the 90 and 140 would be most effective?
Cheers

Luxter

Covered extensively:

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-foru...cant-data.html

My recommendation would be to avoid concoctions of any sort. I know of at least one Subaru forum that highly recommends all sorts of "blends" (Scotty's Cocktail IIRC). And I speak from past experience. My winter DD is a WRX.
LM 75W-90 GL-5 is allright, there are however better suited fluids. See the link above.
Cheers,
=L=

Waltheisenberg

I have much respect for Flat6 Innovations and the solutions you have provided however you are also in the business of selling and promoting the products you sell and the companies you’ve worked with, correct? Nothing wrong with that. “It astonishes me how people will try to outsmart the problem, and spend more time and effort to use the WRONG thing for the application” We are all just trying to determine the best products for our cars. I trust no ones word and do my own research while trying to keep an open mind. No one and no one product is perfect. Even the ceramic hybrid IMS retrofit has raised questions since there have been a few, well documented failures and earlier than anticipated premature wear. Again, I am asking that that there be conclusive proof that oil, specifically the Porsche recommended factory fill, caused all the 996\997 engine failures. The 5w40TD chemical makeup is likely the same chemistry as 0w40 Euro formula minus the viscosity difference and slightly higher ZDDP package. I was going to contact the Mobil help desk for clarification but of course no matter what is said, they still will not be trusted to their word, correct? As to be expected, as with any large successful company, there will always be some trying to knock them down. After all, what in the world could Exxon-Mobil know about synthetic motor oil anyway? What would they care if engines, such as in Porsche, BMW and Mercedes Benz AMG prematurely fail or wear due to their products? So I ask, if I buy oil which has the nearly the same ZDDP at $139.00 plus, you can guarantee I will see less wear and failures than using Mobil 1? By the way, for anyone interested Remember, boutique brands such as Amsoil and Royal Purple have been trying to knock Mobil off the pedestal for decades to gain market share. Which would you rather have in your Porsche on a colder day? Mobil has more hard research in their synthetic oil chemistry than any other company and there are many more complicated factors involved in the chemistry. I have no problem paying more for a product if it's proven to be worth the added cost.

Luxter

Just substitute quick turnaround with global availability.

In fact, based on my real world data I would rather use a specific Amsoil than its Mobil counterpart.

Have fun getting that info from Mobil. I'll be happy to see their comments.

Sneaky Pete

A question I have is (and I can't believe I'm posting in an oil thread YAY!) if the OP is asking what is the best oil, 1) why is the OP clearly touting M1 and 2) did the OP try to turn this into an IMS thread?

The best thing about M1 is when your making sandwiches and you run out of butter just go out to the garage and scoop some out of your oil fill tube.