Cloudspin

FSI is building motor for my '03 996 that will be used toprimarily to drive back and forth to, and participate in, DE events in Florida (Sebring, HMS. PBIR, Daytona), plus additional miles between events to keep seals from drying out, etc. Gets very hot down here obviously. I've read Jake and LN's articles on lubrication and the actual (high) oil temps they are seeing on M96s on track in high ambient conditions.

I'd like to add a supplemental oil cooler. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to locate one given the tight confines of a 996? Also what suppliers you would recommend. I tried searching the threads and don't see anything and haven't had any luck on the I'net. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

logray

LNE is developing one however I'm not sure if it is a real product yet.

Look on ln engineering's website for more information, someone has done it already and they sold or sell on external cooler adapter.

Cloudspin

Thanks for the response. I talked to Charles about his product, bought it and had it shipped to FSI. I don't believe it is an supplemental oil cooler per se. It replaces the existing heat exchanger and is designed to facilitate plumbing an external oil cooler furnished by others. I think finding the external cooler itself and a source of cool air to flow through it remain the challenge. Thanks again.

nick49

I'd try to mount it above the motor where it would get cool air flow from the rear deck spoiler. You may have to make some ducting but the coolant lines would be relatively short. Another place may be next to the trans near the rear axle. Would require making ductwork in and out. If the pump is strong enough, an ideal place would be center front in the bumper cover but it would require long lines. This is generally reserved for true dry sump systems with a strong scavenge that will cool the oil before being returned to the tank.

perryinva

BUMP. Anyone put one in? I too, am looking at, and wondering of the feasability of the same thing. What did you end up doing for location, 996C2? There really is no room on top of the rear of the engine under the deck.

Macster

Center radiator opening.

It can even be placed in front of the existing radiator though protection from rocks/etc I think probably a good idea.

'course, you know this is going to bump the amount of oil the engine requires way up.

I know a guy who runs a 914 with a 993 engine and this setup has extra oil coolers and the engine takes around 16 quarts of oil.

Oh, forgot to mention at least one other thing: You need to consider fitting a t-stat in the oil line to the extra cooler to prevent the oil from being overly cooled when the engine is warming up. You do not want to have the existing/stock oil/water heat exchanger trying to bring some heat to the oil and while this add on oil cooler cools the oil.

Sincerely,

Macster.

perryinva

I was looking at replacing the stock coolant/oil cooler with the adapter for just oil cooling. I don't see the thermodynmaic reason for cooling 240ºF oil with 200ºF coolant, when both systems would benefit from reduced heat load.

Cloudspin

Perry,

My attempts to find a suitable location have been unsuccessful. LN is marketing an adapter for lines to and from an external cooler and recommend a couple 3rd party fan powered coolers but don't offer any info on where the coolers can be mounted. One local indy is suggesting installing an oil cooler in place of my center radiator that I added a few months ago. I haven't seen any tangible effect from the center radiator but have major reservations about installing an oil cooler at the front of the car. There's the increased oil volume Macster mentioned but I'm even more concerned about increasing the potential for oil starvation during track events. Wish I had more to offer.

MadeInPorsche

Off topic ...

But 996c2, Where did you get your front bumper?
Its looks sick. I would like to get some thing like that

perryinva

Yes, that is exactly right. Finding a cooler and the correct Aeroquip AN lines is the easy part, it's a location with any airflow when the car is moving, yet protected fromimpact damage that is the key. The front rad location is not good from both an impact standpoint, and distance/starvation unless an auxiliary pump was used, which would be another point of failure. Too far to expect the stock pump to push oil, plus the damage factor, though a suitable screen could be designed. That is disappointing that LNE doesn't offer any location examples that would be required to use their product. IIRC, I have a nice Mocal 18 row oil cooler and full set of AN fittings and SS lines that I had used when I added it to my 944 many years back, and removed when I sold the car. It had a nice effect on oil temp, but of course did not replace an existing cooler, it was used with an external oil filter and filter replacement adapter. It wouldn't take much air flow to cool better than the stock coolant one.

Macster

That's contrary to what studies of engine wear vs. temperature have found.
Studies have shown engine wear goes up as oil/coolant temperature drop. Get much below 200F and wear rates climb.

As long as the stock cooling system is in good shape -- and often they are not -- these cars are quite capable of remaining cool even when pushed hard in high temps. (I have at several different times driven my Boxster in such a way, in high ambient temps, to see the coolant temp climb to 226F. While that is hot, that is as hot as it got. There was no harm done so while this is hot it is clearly not too hot.)

About the only change that makes any sense would be to add additional radiator capacity. This works to keep coolant temps down which lowers oil temps as well.

This is what Porsche does. (Well,that and in newer models it improves the car's aerodynamics to increase increase cooling efficiency while often keeping the drag low) and along with this change the radiator fans to perhaps provide more fan speeds, or even variable fan speeds depending upon coolant temp/AC demands).

But you do not want to go overboard. There's a possible problem with adding too much cooling. The engine can run 'cold' and that ain't good.

Also, if there is too much cooling capacity, this can lower the coolant temp to the point this can cause the t-stat to close. Then as the heat rises the t-stat opens.

This can subject the engine to larger swings in temperature it would get if left alone.

This can work to over time cause, for example, head gasket leaks as the heads/blocks grow and shrink at different rates as the coolant temp drops/climbs/drops over and over again.

It could also lead to some kind of t-stat failure that could have the thing stick open, or close, or just stuck.

Sincerely,

Macster.

perryinva

I sincerely doubt that it would be easy to get too much cooling with either coolant of oil on my 996, at least in Virginia. I never (very rarely) drive the car in temps below freezing. But I understand your point, thanks.

TomF

I wonder why they chose to add an additional radiator on the C4? ...to offset the airflow loss from the AWD diff?

BlownC2

I actually just had one installed. My car has a TPC tubo which deletes the mufflers from the rear quarters and uses a single center muffler. I had the oil cooler installed inside the left rear where the muffler use to be. I only took the car out for brief drive with my mechanic this afternoon so I don't know how well it will work. I also installed a turbo rear bumper so the fan from the radiator blows the hot air out through the vent in the bumper. I'll be on the track next week so i'll have a chance to see how it affects temps.

Cloudspin

MadeinPorsce,
I got my body kit from Fiberwerks in California. Ask for Karl (owner) at 559-897-9999 or Fiberwerks.com. He provided a qualty product at a very competitive price and excellent customer service to me. Cheers.