Issue with P253 camshaft timing tool
 

Trying to install the P253 camshaft timing tool to remove hold camshafts down while removing the cam cover on side 1-3. It seems the black inserts' diameters are too large. Engine is at TDC with 5/16 pin inserted. This is the same method Wayne used in 101 projects for Boxster. What am I missing here? This is a 2001 Carrera Cab.

Do I need to loosen the cam cover some first??

NO, do not loosen any bolts on the cover until the tool is installed properly.

Try rotating the engine 360 again and install the pin. Then see if it fits.

I'm not sure if that version of the tool can rotate to align with the slot in the end of the cam, if not - and it is "fixed" it is possible your timing is off enough so that it won't fit unless you are not at TDC. Although judging by the set screw at the top, I am guessing the top insert can rotate to accommodate the cam slot position.

You might also have the tool upside down. From your picture, that looks like 1-3 and the timing groove is on the exhaust cam (bottom).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Q...0/IMG_3449.JPG

+1 for rotate 360

Thanks guys, I understand what you are saying but I understand this an already tried both ways to make sure I am not crazy. My problem is the actual diameter of the black portion of the tool is slightly larger than the bore in the cylinder head. Anyone have an engine and or tool they could measure for me? I'll get my measurements but trying to figure if my engine is out of spec or the tool.

Does the slot on the tool fit into the slot on the cam?

Does the hexagonal shape at the bottom in the lower picture fit just inside the outer flange on the end of the cam?

If so, then you are ready to go.

Basically, when you remove the covers the camshaft end "outer flanges" (not the expansion plugs) need to be secured from popping "outward" toward the cam cover. As long as the tool is inserted far enough you are done.

It does not need to go in "all the way" as long as the above statements are "true".

If you can't fit the slot on the tool into the slot on the cam end, nor can you fit the hexagonal shape into the end of the cam (but not butting too closely up against the expansion plug), then I would say there is a problem with the tool.

it looks like the bolt to hold the tool aligns with the hole in the block? if you can screw it in, the tool is in... albeit maybe the tool is wrong?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...arge/Pic06.jpg

If you look here the black portion is supposed to go 2-3mm into the aluminum bore. In my case it will not go in like this. I even took the hex piece off the p253 tool and tried to see how/if that would fit but it does not. Once I find my calipers I'll let you know how much interference there is in case another poor soul has this same issue.

where did you get that tool?

I thought the 4 sided piece had a center... otherwise what holds the cam? (have not looked at that tool in over a year...)

Somewhat ironic that pelican touts this tool, yet he also use a home brew version in their procedure:

From http://www.101projects.com/Boxster/P.../016/Page2.htm...

http://www.101projects.com/Boxster/P...ges/Pic387.jpg

996 cab, I had the same problem on mine, I took a file to that end and just took off the paint/power coat (what ever they used on it). Worked fine after that...

Logray, that's the cam lock, not the cam end hold down fixture.

That is the cam timing tool not the cam hold down tool. The hold down tool (#216 i believe) has two bolts that fit into the end of the cams. The timing tool has the large sort of oblong end piece that fits into the opening in the head by the intake cam, but does not fit into the end of the cam. The other end with the round piece with the straight extension fits into the groove on the end of the exhaust cam. The tools are different and are not interchangeable. I would send you a picture and diagram of the tool you need but I am on a road trip right now. I can send it to you on Sunday when I return home.

Doug is correct that is a timing tool and I believe Wayne at Pelican suggests you can use the timing tool to substitute as a hold down tool. There are quite a few threads on this...

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/594122-how-to-set-cam-timing-on-996-a.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ol-9612-a.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/637412-making-9611-cam-holding-tool.html

There are more that I could dig up...

I opted to just use a hold down tool because I chose to re-time differently than using a timing tool...

The timing tool will reallynot function as the hold down tool. It really does not hold down the exhaust cam well, just fits into the groove, and does not fit in the end of the intake cam at all.

I'm not experienced with the Pelican tool. Nor on the Boxster and whether this translates to the 996, but Wayne's cam removal DIY at this link does spell out ...

"With the plugs removed, now install the camshaft timing tool, P253 onto the end of the camshaft. Normally, you would use Porsche tool 9624 to hold the camshafts onto the end of the motor (see Photo 3 of Pelican Technical Article: Boxster Engine Teardown), but I found that the camshaft timing tool also pretty much did an adequate job of holding them in place as well. While I personally have most of the tools listed as required in the Porsche factory manuals, I like to try to recommend places where they may not be 100% absolutely necessary. This is one of those cases: use the P253 tool instead."

And here is a blurb from Doug in this post on the different versions of the tool.

"...The ZDmax/SIR tool is a little different than the OEM tool. The OEM tool locks into the intake cam access hole, not the cam itself, and them fits into the grooves on the exhaust cams and allows you to rotate the cams into position (assumes that they are relatively close to the correct position. So you lock the engine at TDC, fit the tool, loosen the sprocket and rotate the cam to the correct position. then you tighten the sprocket bolts to set the position of the cams. This is done on one side, the the crank is rotated 360 degrees and the other side is done.

With the ZDmax/SIR tool it just locks in the cams with the grooves straight up and down so you have to rotate the crank until the grooves are straight, install the tool, them loosen the bolts on the sprocket, move the crank to TDC and tighten the sprocket bolts. Then do the other side..."

Just got back from a motorcycle road trip and thought I would go ahead and post the diagrams and pictures for the cam hold-down tool. You will see that it is quite different than the timing tool. The are definitely not interchangeable. This is a homemade version and when I made mine I used round head bolts to fit into the cam ends better. Also, be careful how far into the cams the heads of the bolts go, you don't want to press against the expansion caps and damage them.

By the way, if you are going to remove the cams you are also going to need a tool to compress the cam advance mechanisms. Here are some pics of that tool.

Dharn thanks for the diagrams but they are in inches, you need to think in metric and be one with the Germans :)

This afternoon I actual removed the bank 1-3 cover, camshafts and head. I had to file the diameter of the tool down to allow it to fit. The p253 actually did a good job of holding both cams down. It was very snug against the intake cam so it did not allow it to move much when removing the cover.

Nice work.

Doug,
I've been trying to create this tool as well, but can't seem to quite figure out the thread size. I assume it is metric, but M5 seems to big, and M4 is too small. then it comes down to TPI. I attempted to thread some taps to determine size and TPI but of course didnt try too hard, as taps will eventually "fit"!
Do you recall the exact size and thread?

It's 5mm REVERSE threads

Actually it depends on the date of the cam advance mechanism. On the early versions the thread in the base of the mechanism is 5mm reverse thread. In later versions it is 5 mm standard thread. I made the tool for my early versions with brass rod stock and metric dies. The trick is to find a 5mm reverse (left hand ) die. You can find the on line. Then you thread one end right hand and get a couple of right hand nuts, thread the other hend left hand and thread it into the vase of the mechanism. I don't have the part number for when they changed the tread direction.

P253 Cam Timing Tool
 

Hi, I just can't figure out how the P253 tool can work. I pulled the 2 cam plugs off my 99 boxster. The exhaust cam has 2 grooves( 12 and 6 o'clock) where the bottom of the tool is keyed where it will fit into the grooves. The intake cam has 4 grooves (at 12-3-6 and 9 o'clock) BUT the tool has just a diamond shaped fitting, there is no evidence that this top fitting is keyed in any way. I don't understand how this synces up the 2 cams. I'm doing work on bank 2 of a 99 boxster base. Am I missing something here? Can anyone shed light on this matter. Just want to be absolutely sure everything is synced before I turn the key!!!

Ok so what you do with the tool is fix it to the head into the threaded hole between the cams, insert the slotted side of the tool into the exhaust cam , then the diamond shape side should slot easily into the hollow end of the inlet cam, it should slide in and out , this is perfect timing , if it's out you need to loosen the four bolts on the cam sprocket behind the scavenge pump and move the diamond end of the tool until it slots in then tighten the sprocket .
Turn over the engine by hand and re check a few times,

OK ...Thanks for the reply...I guess the diamond fitting really doesn't have anything to do with slots on the intake it just slides.....Odd??

The two cans are already timed together inside the head as a pair , this tool basically times the cams with the crank, say for example the timing was our and the diamond plug won't slot in, to make it slot in you would loosen the bolts on the cam pulley to allow the cams to be turned without moving the pulley or chains . They you would push on the tool to align the diamond plug , this in turn moves the tool acting as a pivot on the slotted side of the tool into the cam slot , as you push the tool you are effectively moving both cams and when the diamond plug lines up you stop and tighten the pulley again, now the cams are in time with the crank, get it?
This tool is for 5 chain engines , the later 3 chain is a different tool I believe !

Thanks ....I understand the concept...I've read....that this tool is for timing the cams....if the Crank shaft is locked at TDC you're then aligning the slotted exhaust cam with the diamond intake cam with the tool bolted to the crank case.... they are then automatically aligned with the crank because its locked at TDC and the tool itself is bolted the crank case....correct? The bottom cam will have the slot going vertical aligning with the seams in the crank case......etc. BUT... what I don't get is there is nothing that remotely looks like a diamond in that top cam....(on my engine at least)....unless there is a diamond fitting that is somehow recessed that can't be seen.I can't figure out how the top cam is set when the only thing I see are 4 slots on the top cam. I have a 99 boxster and assuming is a 5 chain engine. I havn't tried to do anything yet maybe its all self explained when you bolt the thing on. Thanks for the reply.

The diamond on the tool does not lock anything. It merely engages into the cam recess so you can be sure the opposite cam is in the correct orientation. If it doesn't line up and fit in the recess, you are 360* rotation off. Bank 1 and bank 2 can not both be at tdc at the same time. Hope this helps.
.02

Exactly

Em.. Not really....doesn't make sense..why bother having the intake part of the tool in the 1st place and why have the tool bolt to the engine case. Also doesn't help if only the exhaust is timed... what about the intake cam? DIY 'camshaft upgrade' on Pelican site calls it a camshaft timing tool so does SIR tools. Yes both sides are done separately w TDC set for respective banks.....WAIT... Unless... your saying the only way to insure the cams are timed with each other is to eyeball the divots and colored chain link on the cam chain and then your just timing the exhaust cam with crank locked at TDC...which in turn times the 2 cams and the crankshaft. ...Think I answered my own question. So with this tool you would never know if a tooth skipped on the intake. If that actually happened the only way to correct it would be to remove the cams reset them relative to each other(divot and colored link)and re- install them. Correct? Sorry for the long reply ...just want make sure I get everything right before proceeding with my project.Thanks in advance.

Yes the intake and exhaust cams are timed with each other when they are installed in the head by looking at the dots on the cam sprockets , when done correctly the dots on both cams look like they are at 12 o'clock and there are a number of free links in between so there is a link on the tooth where the dot is then I think it is 7 (check this with your manual) free links then the dot for the other cam. Once the valve cover goes on that's it they are timed as a pair by the chain that's it
Now when you are timing that bank with the crank you need the dots to be at the top (12 o'clock on the cam sprockets and the crank at TDC
Now the tool, ok so again as both cams are linked by the small chain in the head if you turn one can I.e the slotted one , the other turns also so they both turn together.
The tool goes into the slot on the cam on the right side of the tool, exhaust cam I think and that gets locked in.
Now the other side of the tool has the diamond shape fitting , the outer edges or the diamond are the perfect size to fit in the end of the intake cam and you can see that this side of the tool can be plunged in and out.
So what happens is as you move the tool both cams are turning by the slotted side turning one cam and the chain inside turning the other so both are turning, and you keep trying the plunger diamond end till you hit the spot and it with plunge in and out of the end of the cam recess with out resistance.
Your cams are now perfectly aligned with the crank and you can tighten the cam sprocket up to lock the cams in time.
It just how the tool works , just the way it's made .
Now you rotate the crank a full 360 and time the other bank as they are timed this way, it's a common mistake to time both banks without rotating the crank so don't do this
Time left bank as above with dots at 12 o'clock then rotate 360 , lock tdc again then time the second bank with dots at 12 o'clock , the check each bank again two or three times by rotating the crank and re checking.
Hope this helps!!

Yes ...big help thanks...few more questions. I'm replacing the solenoid in bank 2 (don't want to remove the cams) are the divots and colored links visible w cams installed? How can you tell if bank 1 or 2 is at TDC won't both exhaust cam slots be vertical? Just going with Pelican and Bentley manual, would be nice get my hand on a serv man or at least for checking timing at least. Are they available without buying the 13 or so volumes for $900 on ebay ? Thanks again v

Some of the IWIS cam chains don't have the colored links (mine didn't) - it doesn't matter though, just make sure you've got the proper number of links between the sprokets (7 free, 8 total sprocket to sprocket mark to mark iirc).

If the dot on the cam is at 12 o'clock your on the right turn of the crank and also if currently timed yes the slots will look inline or horizontal

To replace the solenoid you need to remove the valve cover, for this you need another tool to go on instead of the timing tool, to hold down the ends of the cams as the cams become unsupported when the cover is removed

What issue do you have ?

Here are some drawings and pictures of a home made cam tool for holding down the cams when you are removing the cam covers. Be careful if you make one of these. I made a crude version of this and ended up deforming the expansion plugs which caused them to blow out. Ended up removing the expansion plugs
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3b4e7b3905.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b7e6e3da25.jpg
, threading the cams and using threaded plugs, but that is a whole other story.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b934e43e9e.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...fbf34fff4a.png

P1539 CEL ,I checked the ohms across the terminals didn't get 13.5 got way less,and did a click test but didn't hear anything(not sure I would have anyway). Also doing IMS and RMS. So if the the dot on the cam is at 12 o'clock that would be TDC for that bank. And the dots are visible with the cam cover off and in the car!! Pelican sea you can use the timing tool does a good job at holding the cams in....hope they're right.

Attachment 1292984
This is surely worth it for you is $90 has all the tools!

Attachment 1292985
Here's the item number for you to search!

If you need the timing tools, I have them for rent. See here: https://rennlist.com/forums/parts-ma...-for-rent.html
PM me if you're interested.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8dec34cb7b.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...81c8d2f1c5.jpg
Pictures of the "factory" tools, although these are actually an after market set that I bought.

Well spent some time under my 99 boxster today. Set to do the IMS and RMS. I tried to attach the P253 Tool just to check the timing and I could not get the bottom groove to engage in the exhaust cam, just wasn't seating in far enough and the bolt on the side of the tool wasn't lining up. Tried nudging the crank round and round, clockwise of course and just couldn't get it to click in. I went as far as taking the set screws out of the tool and pulling the bottom round piece with groove off the tool and it did seem to click in by itself though not solidly....reassembled the tool and still couldn't do it. also not sure how to tell what bank is at TDC. Any thoughts?? Thanks Vin

No...I'm getting the cam locks from LN either as a rental or free loaner depending on what IMS kit I purchase.. I just wanted to try the P253 tool to check my timing before I started the project to get to learn how to use it. Using it later on when I'm removing a cam cover for solenoid replacement(next project).

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7a188b7388.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ea89f2992d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f0aecab6ca.jpg
If it is of any help the first two pictures show a view of the cam advance mechanism with the solenoid. Not real hard to replace and you don't have to remove the cams. Note that there is a difference between the drivers and passengers side advance mechanism and the solenoid sp be sure you get the proper one. The third picture is one of a cam hold down tool I made before I bought a set of tools. It was a simple aluminum bar and a piece of cloth to protect the cam bearing surface. Worked fine but not as elegant as the tools I bought that was hown in a previous post.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...e9047f206d.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a59a632e03.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0dbd3f4f3f.jpg
If you decide to remove the cams you are also going to need a tool to compress the advance mechanism. Here are some pictures of the tool I made. A simple threaded rod that screws into the base of the mechanism and then some nuts on the other end. On early models they are left hand threads and it ws difficult to find a die for this. If you proceed with this I can find an old thread of mine that has the size, etc. for these.

Thanks...I'm doing it w engine in the car though. Can you also replace the ramps for the variocam w/o removing the cams?? Also, any additional info in the P253 tool that I somehow can't get to pop into the groove would be helpful. I see yours installed on pic 2 My bolt wouldn't line up so I couldn't install it.Thanks V

99 Boxster Base ...don't know whats up with the FW lock, it 's for a 99 boxster base...bolt did not thread easily. I wanted to check the cam timing with the P253 and was also going to use to hold the cams...Pelican said it was fine.??. Worked on it some today...I was able to get it to click in both cams after much jockeying around. But still was not able to bolt it to the case ....holes didn't line up. Went over to bank 1 and was able to hold with my left hand while turning the crank and felt it click in at the same spot bank 2 did.....and...was not able to bolt bank 1 either. Now the interesting thing is, that both sides do click in but not at TDC ....after they're in it seems I'm a few degrees after TDC on both sides. Now how are both cams out of sync at the same exact place(few degrees beyond TDC) I can only think the tool is off if its measuring the same for both sides and it can't ever be attached to the case. Now ...when I picked up the car (after purchase) I drove it home for 2 hours in this same condition.... I'm hoping there isn't any damaging effects if it is in fact out. Didn't notice any oddities in driving it. Any thoughts....trying to curb my obsession!! Thanks Again. V

V I think your doing something wrong the tool fits right on no problem, it attaches above the cylinder head so it's on the same side as the valve cover , you weren't trying to attach it under neath were you as your engine is still in the car might seem natural to do it that way , the slotted part of the tool should go in the exhaust can not the inlet, if not maybe the tool is off I dunno , when at tdc the notches look like they are inline with the edge of the valve cover where it meets the head.
Also vario chain ramps need cam removal as the mechanism is in between the cams
You might be able to get away with just locking TDC and taking out the chain twnsioners on a five chain to do the ims not sure maybe others will chime in , RMS should be ok

Yes, I'm doing all correct as mentioned. At TDC the notches are lined up w the seams on the cam cover( as well as I can see), Slotted end of tool in Exhaust cam,Diamond end of tool up in the intake, Not too sure what you mean about attaching it underneath. The tool is going in but not locked at TDC a few degrees after on both cams and I can't bolt it to the case. It seems unlikely that both cams are out at the exact same spot, thats why I'm thinking the tool is off. Like I said I was doing this just to check timing before I proceed. I will have the cam lock tool for the IMS, curious to see if that fits at TDC....if it does then it would seem the tool is off. Correct??Thanks V