maniac

Hi all,

I will like to know about the diameter/wall thickness/Increased stiffness of the different bars that fit the '02 996 C2: (OEM Standard, ROW Sport M030, GT3 (996 or 997)and maybe 997 Carrera S). I have the 225/40ZR-18f & 285/30ZR-18r set up, with H&R springs + HD Bilstein shocks & standard bars. Looking to get a "near-neutral understeer".

himself

What do you mean by "near neutral"? What do you use your car for? DD? Track?

If you aren't tracking your car, you probably haven't encountered any understeer that would require dialing it out. IMO, no street driving (i.e., way under the limit) remotely qualifies as a baseline for understeer.

As for the sway bar question:
OEM: front: 23.1, rear: 18.5
ROW M030: front: 23.6, rear: 19.6
GT3 front: 26.7, rear: 20.8 [~$1000 with links]
HR = front 26 mm; rear 23 mm [~$750 - no links required]

If you do track, and have a home track you will visit more than anywhere else, you can get away with a fixed (e.g., HR) front bar with an adjustable rear (e.g., GT3) bar. You can dial your car however you want, and just leave it.

Just keep in mind as the diameter of the sway bar is increased, stiffness increases to the 4th power. So increasing even small amounts has a dramatic affect on stiffness. A .5 mm increase (from stock to ROW) creates a ~10% increase in stiffness. And a 1.1 mm increase creates a ~25% increase. The GT3 increase (rear) is 2.3mm, and (front) is 4.6mm over stock. I think this equates to front =78% stiffer, and rear= 60% stiffer. My math could be off, and disregards thickness, but you get the idea.

Also, the front sway bar may require a different drop link, but most rear sways are direct replacement.

[edit: here is the PCA article on ROW vs USA M030: http://www.pca.org/panorama/sample_article_3.html]

BTW: I have a ROW M030 front and rear sway bar set, and a front GT3 sway bar with Tarett links for sale...

-td

Fissionx

https://rennlist.com/forums/2725180-post2.html

The thickness are different as well, and equally important. The GT3 bars are really big (but adjustable), I might suggest the sport bars instead, but the choice is yours. On my gt3 suspension, going from stock sway bars to GT3 bars, I noticed the car understeerd more with the GT3 bars; rear bar was on full stiff.

The balance of the ROW M030 suspension felt pretty much perfect when I drove such a car. It's hard to beat for the price, I just wanted something a bit stiffer.

This is why I asked before if you knew the spring rates of your current suspension. This is important and will affect the balance of the car (understeer or oversteer) once the car has taken a set. Find out this information first. Personally I feel like your car is set-up just fine how it is, get a good alignment and go do some track events

maniac

Great answers both. The driving will be in DE track & regular driving.

Himself, how much are you asking for your set of ROW Sport MO30 Stabilizer bars?, Can you ship them?

UCrazyKid

TD- Great info here and you seem to have a lot of knowledge regarding diameters and roll stiff ness. Care to comment on Solid vs. Hollow?

Thanks!

I'm running x74, bars are the same as the M030. FYI

himself

I was forced to figure this out when I upgrade my sway bars. But, for solid vs. hollow, I'd have to do actual math. As a generally proposition, I believe a larger hollow bar will give you the same stiffness as a smaller solid bar, but with reduced weight. Where there 2 intersect is the real question, I suppose.

Surely somebody has this answer handy.

Whatever the price is, the $ is already allocated to go to project Rennwish. They can be shipped, PM your zip code. We'll discuss the cost offline.

Although I would like to sell these, personally, I would skip the M030 sways and go straight to HR/GT3 if you have track duty in mind...

-td

maniac

Myself. Zip Code: 78572 I prefer the ROW M030 bars. Do you have the bushings that go with the bars?

maniac

How do you think it will handle, if you install, just the rear ROW M030 bar w/. the std. one in front.?

himself

It should probably be OK since there is only a slight difference in stiffness in the stock vs ROW bar. It would tend to add a little oversteer on the numbers. But, personally, I wouldn't suggest this, especially since the ROW bar is not adjustable.

IMO, for the money, the best bang for the buck is to get an adjustable rear sway bar and a fixed front. It's not the optimal solution for adjustability on multiple tracks, but for most people it works perfectly.

-td

balefire

Resurrecting a thread.
What's the SOFTEST sway bar? I'm looking for a front sway bar that is softer than OEM to reduce understeer for autocross. I'm hoping that an aftermarket adjustable sway bar may have a softest position that is softer than OEM. Any ideas?

Pac996

What type and size front and rear tires are you using?

I don't think your car is acting normal with understeer going on. To many variables to go through. Could be anything like braking habits or mechanics of the suspension. Maybe even tire pressures. Anyway I'm convinced my car is set up for oversteer.

Ale-Superbike

Hello on the 996 Carrera 2, you can mount the bars of the 996 GT3?

ivangene

OH YEA !!!
(but you need differant drop links)

Ale-Superbike

Oh you mean that the bars can be mounted by changing the connecting rods with those of the GT3?

ivangene

connecting rods?
drop links --- here is a pic
you need OEM GT3 sway bars and bushings - PLUS new drop links (the red parts)