Originally Posted by racer

Longhoods, Mid-year cars, SC/Carerras/ 964/993/996. Each version got progressively worse (ie heavier, less responsive) yet faster and quantifiably (sp?) better at the same time

Originally Posted by racer

Every brand, every model, when improved and rolled out is "bigger and heavier" than its predecessor. From VW Golfs to S class Benzes. The only way to get "lighter" or "more responsive" seems to be to buy older versions. Which is a bit ironic since it is those very versions people complain are too heavy or too unresponsive to begin with, untill the "next" generation comes out, then they become the "great old cars" Longhoods, Mid-year cars, SC/Carerras/ 964/993/996. Each version got progressively worse (ie heavier, less responsive) yet faster and quantifiably (sp?) better at the same time

Originally Posted by blk on blk

Some good points on this thread both pro and con. It seems Porsche has figured out a way to get by on doing just enough to make us all happy, or at least content enough to buy their cars in record numbers. I think at this stage it is a pretty poor value from a performance per dollar spent perspective. I also think the interior quality and interior contrstuction is borderline abomination for a car in any price range let alone one in the 80k-130k range. Still there is something special about it nonetheless. It is respected and awed by just about everyone, and holds a dear place in the hearts of automotive fans worldwide. Myself included in that group. I love the car, but find so many things disappointing with it, yet at the same time there is nothing I would rather drive on a daily basis so you see where Porsche really has us in a unique spot. We know for a fact that they can do better. It seems the 993 was truly a quality car all the way around. The 996 was a revolution of sorts and almost was like starting over for them. They worked out some kinks with it in 2004 and made it more aethetically appealing. They improved on that with a gorgeous 997, and have made some strides in interior quality. Seems they are finding their way with the water cooled and bigger 911. I would expect the 998 to be the culmination of things with the water cooled engine and should be back to 993 type solid build quality both inside and outside the car. It is what should be expected, and should be the bench mark. I think many of us give Porsche a total pass because well it is Porsche. Just like people give Rolex a pass when their watch loses time each year over a Timex. You accept quirks of a Rolex automatic because it is Rolex even though you should expect perfection from a watch that is a minimum 3k to get. If it was a Timex you woudl throw it away, bitch and moan and buy something else. Porsche gets the same pass.

Originally Posted by newport996

Hmmm....no I dont give porsche a pass....but you fail to realize that the 993 was an EXPENSIVE car to maintain....the 996 is CHEAP in comparison. DIRT CHEAP. It seems like the mystique is that a 993 will run for a million miles or something without a tuneup. There are MAJOR things that can happen to the 993 that are expensive to repair. Just doinf a quick search...various oil leaks, premature valve wear and carbon buildup requiring expensive top end rebuilds...which can be as much as a COMPLETE 996 engine...Just about everything on a 993 is MORE EXPENSIVE....and what do you get for it? Less performance....I dont buy the whole 993 is built better. My 996 is SOLID, maybe one of the best built cars I have ever owned. Just because other manufacturers wanna beef up their cars to compete, doesnt mean Porsche has to....All their current cars are over 300 HP...how much do you want? 0-60 times have been below 5 seconds and they are NOT fast from the line cars....I had a few E46 M3's pulling up next to me and revving....I got sick of it, downshifted and punched it....well they NEVER caught me until I let up because it was my exit...before I knew it, I was at 135...their lights wer getting smaller and smaller in my mirror. My Car is a STOCK engine in a 99 C4 Cab with 123k miles on it....i am not sure how much performance one needs in todays world...If HP is your goal..get a Viper with 600hp...but is that a better driving experience than a 911? NO.....Not giving Porsche a pass, but when you look at it for what it is, there is a reason that Porsche's have the mystique they do...they are amazing cars.

Originally Posted by newport996

Hmmm....no I dont give porsche a pass....but you fail to realize that the 993 was an EXPENSIVE car to maintain....the 996 is CHEAP in comparison. DIRT CHEAP. It seems like the mystique is that a 993 will run for a million miles or something without a tuneup. There are MAJOR things that can happen to the 993 that are expensive to repair. Just doinf a quick search...various oil leaks, premature valve wear and carbon buildup requiring expensive top end rebuilds...which can be as much as a COMPLETE 996 engine...Just about everything on a 993 is MORE EXPENSIVE....and what do you get for it? Less performance....I dont buy the whole 993 is built better. My 996 is SOLID, maybe one of the best built cars I have ever owned. Just because other manufacturers wanna beef up their cars to compete, doesnt mean Porsche has to....All their current cars are over 300 HP...how much do you want? 0-60 times have been below 5 seconds and they are NOT fast from the line cars....I had a few E46 M3's pulling up next to me and revving....I got sick of it, downshifted and punched it....well they NEVER caught me until I let up because it was my exit...before I knew it, I was at 135...their lights wer getting smaller and smaller in my mirror. My Car is a STOCK engine in a 99 C4 Cab with 123k miles on it....i am not sure how much performance one needs in todays world...If HP is your goal..get a Viper with 600hp...but is that a better driving experience than a 911? NO.....Not giving Porsche a pass, but when you look at it for what it is, there is a reason that Porsche's have the mystique they do...they are amazing cars.

Originally Posted by racer

The only reason Porsche could stay in business was to STOP doing things the OLD WAY (ie 964/993). Those cars, as mentioned above, were VERY expensive to build. A 996 was designed to be easier and less expensive to build. That's not to say they sold them for less $$ than a 993, but in the early to mid 1990s, Porsche was nearly out of business. The success of the 993 allowed them to stay around to fully develop the 996 - which was cheaper to make than its predecessor and when combined with the Boxster allowed Porsche to rebuild itself as a company and be around today and heck, even begin to take control over their neighbor (VW).

Sorry about calling the 996's "heavier" than the 993. But given all the options put on a 996, does anyone have one thay actually weighs 2920?? They are longer than the 993 though AND they have the advantage of looking like a Boxster

Originally Posted by jumper5836

Just have to point out. It was not the 993 that kept Porsche from going under. It was the Boxster.

Originally Posted by newport996

The 993 was NOT that popular..if I recall it sold in less numbers than the 964 and that was a problem for Porsche....cars were not flying out of the showrooms....the Boxster was an instant hit and turned Porsche around.....the 993 was not a huge financial success for Porsche.

Originally Posted by racer

. Porsche was developing BOTH the 986 and 996 together as a money saving method. Hence, the commonality between the two models. Sucess (relative) of the 993 allowed them to push back the 996 intro till 1999(us) - 2 years after the Boxster.

Originally Posted by ppbskis

As a 996 turbo owner my comments on the better built 993 etc. are as follows, it must be because;
1) Global warming was'nt as great.
2) We were still using good old " freon"
3) Infancy of political correctness.
4) Organic foods not as prevalent as today.
5) Alternative lifestyles not as acceptable
6) No digital cable tv's and plasma screens for the masses.
7) Of course no High Speed Internet.

these are the reasons the 993 is the greatest

Originally Posted by Kevin H. in Atl..

US customers were taking delivery of 996 models in early-mid 98. These were the "early" '99 models for NA. The 996 debuted in Europe as 98 model.
In fiscal 96/97 Porsche sold 16,507 911's, outselling Boxster.
In fiscal 97/98 Porsche sold 17,869 911's, 948 less than Boxster.
The Boxster's best years, 99/00 and 00/01, the Boxster outsold the 996 by 2697 units and 1144 units respectively.
From fiscal 01/02 through fiscal 04/05, the 996 outsold the Boxster by 40,351 units, 111,656 996's to 71,305 Boxsters.
These sales numbers should also indicate why 996 depreciation is greater than 993. Porsche sold ~49,216 993's, ~ 184,517 996's. This is significant.