Cayenne Porsche of the Millenium
09-11-2001, 10:10 AM
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Cayenne Porsche of the Millenium
Why is everyone getting upset about the Cayenne? The Cayenne seems to be right up the "new" Porsche's alley.
The fact that Porsche is no longer interested in their heritage, ie racing, is shown in their pull out of Le Mans program, and is also manifested in the product they put on the road, ie Boxster, 996, and 996TT.
The Cayenne is actually refreshing, now everything Porsche is doing makes sense.
The fact that Porsche is no longer interested in their heritage, ie racing, is shown in their pull out of Le Mans program, and is also manifested in the product they put on the road, ie Boxster, 996, and 996TT.
The Cayenne is actually refreshing, now everything Porsche is doing makes sense.
09-11-2001, 04:24 PM
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There is a hole lot of resentment behind that sarcasm, Maxeemun. 
I think the 996,996TT, and Boxer are excellent products but I am actually ashamed of Porsche stopping to be a pure sport car company (Ferry is turning over in his grave). All due to corporate decisions from a buch of pencil pusher yuppies in stutgart who sit behind a desk all day and probably can´t even drive a manual. You won´t se Ferrari doing that! Whats next, Lotus launching a pick-up truck?
Its true we are all seeing the effects of the divergenge of human and ecomnomic resources from Porsche in its current performance in motorsport. And the result? a new 2.7 RS? a 935? NOT, A SUV (Slow-Ugly Vehicle)!! The ANTI-SPORT CAR, a heavy, slow, clumpsy and roll-over happy SUV for which you constantly have to break for in the left lane of the highways will share the same emblem on its hood than our sportcars.
Sad times for Porsche
I think the 996,996TT, and Boxer are excellent products but I am actually ashamed of Porsche stopping to be a pure sport car company (Ferry is turning over in his grave). All due to corporate decisions from a buch of pencil pusher yuppies in stutgart who sit behind a desk all day and probably can´t even drive a manual. You won´t se Ferrari doing that! Whats next, Lotus launching a pick-up truck?
Its true we are all seeing the effects of the divergenge of human and ecomnomic resources from Porsche in its current performance in motorsport. And the result? a new 2.7 RS? a 935? NOT, A SUV (Slow-Ugly Vehicle)!! The ANTI-SPORT CAR, a heavy, slow, clumpsy and roll-over happy SUV for which you constantly have to break for in the left lane of the highways will share the same emblem on its hood than our sportcars.
Sad times for Porsche
09-11-2001, 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by roschpe:
<STRONG>Why is everyone getting upset about the Cayenne? The Cayenne seems to be right up the "new" Porsche's alley. </STRONG>
<STRONG>Why is everyone getting upset about the Cayenne? The Cayenne seems to be right up the "new" Porsche's alley. </STRONG>
You sure love to stir it up don't you.
Though I'm all for free speech and expression, and would even go so far as to believe communication to be the universal solvent, I think there is also something to be considered with the effects one creates by their communication.
You wouldn't be trying to get others riled with this thread, would you? IMHO, this board works very well as a constructive forum for those with an affinity and interest in all facets Porsche.
Why all the antagonism?
And why the alias?
09-12-2001, 01:40 AM
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Maxeemum's hobbies aside, I think there's a real discussion to be made about the SUV.
Porsche can't always rely on sportscars alone for their income. Nobody buys sportscars when the economy is bad, and often times sportscars are at the mercy of trends. One moment everyone at the golf club drives one, the next moment they're on to something else. (I understand this isn't anyone here, but the majority of Porsche buyers nowadays aren't enthusiasts either. The fact that the majority of 996's and Boxsters are sold with automatics is good evidence). Porsche has been in serious financial trouble before and they can't afford to have that again. They need a product to keep them around so they can continue to do what they love - racing and building sportscars. That's the Cayenne's job. A practical car will provide the much needed funding to race and improve on their core products - the sportscars.
Carlos, I understand where you're coming from. There's just more to it than Porsche "selling out" on us.
Porsche can't always rely on sportscars alone for their income. Nobody buys sportscars when the economy is bad, and often times sportscars are at the mercy of trends. One moment everyone at the golf club drives one, the next moment they're on to something else. (I understand this isn't anyone here, but the majority of Porsche buyers nowadays aren't enthusiasts either. The fact that the majority of 996's and Boxsters are sold with automatics is good evidence). Porsche has been in serious financial trouble before and they can't afford to have that again. They need a product to keep them around so they can continue to do what they love - racing and building sportscars. That's the Cayenne's job. A practical car will provide the much needed funding to race and improve on their core products - the sportscars.
Carlos, I understand where you're coming from. There's just more to it than Porsche "selling out" on us.
09-12-2001, 09:41 AM
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Turbo-Look, that's why Porsche should have let themselves be bought out by somebody like VW - just like Ferrari did let Fiat buy them out.
Ferrari can focus on racing and sports cars. They make fantastic cars and have a great racing program, they won F1 two years in a row.
The flipside is what Porsche is doing. Pull out of LeMans, make the Boxster and now an SUV.
DOn't Misunderstand me. I am a HARDCORE Porsche fan, have always been, since I can remember, I hated Ferrari, I felt proud to be on the Porsche side, it gave me real satisfaction to know hat Porsche was building cars and race cars with air cooled motors, and still beating their competitors.
Now what are we going to do? Feel as proud for the new Porsche SUV, as GM feels for their new Cadillac Escalade, guys give me a break. Stop attacking me and start attacking Porsche, this is the beginning of worse things to come.
Ferrari can focus on racing and sports cars. They make fantastic cars and have a great racing program, they won F1 two years in a row.
The flipside is what Porsche is doing. Pull out of LeMans, make the Boxster and now an SUV.
DOn't Misunderstand me. I am a HARDCORE Porsche fan, have always been, since I can remember, I hated Ferrari, I felt proud to be on the Porsche side, it gave me real satisfaction to know hat Porsche was building cars and race cars with air cooled motors, and still beating their competitors.
Now what are we going to do? Feel as proud for the new Porsche SUV, as GM feels for their new Cadillac Escalade, guys give me a break. Stop attacking me and start attacking Porsche, this is the beginning of worse things to come.
09-12-2001, 01:59 PM
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I agree Turbo-look. But I dread the day that I will run across a SUV with a Porsche badge (and there is no way I´ll be flashing to the Sunday driver inside, other than to tell him to get out of the way)... thats going to hurt.
It will mean that Porsche has dropped its pure-sport car philosophy and the love of motorsport for doubful economical reasons (Porsche is doing better than ever with its sales!).
I don´t think I´m the only one who feels betrayed. I think thats the reason for the rage behind Maxeemoun´s un-constructive posts, and I understand him.
BTW how can a sportscar enthusiast hate Ferrari? We have to be thankfull for their enormous contribution to sportcar developments over the years and provinding a motivation for Porsche to better themselves and compete against. I always thought that Porsche philosophy yielded a better overall product and was on their side in racing but I will never forget a ride in a F40 when I was a kid and have enormous respect for Ferrari.
Carlos from Spain
It will mean that Porsche has dropped its pure-sport car philosophy and the love of motorsport for doubful economical reasons (Porsche is doing better than ever with its sales!).
I don´t think I´m the only one who feels betrayed. I think thats the reason for the rage behind Maxeemoun´s un-constructive posts, and I understand him.
BTW how can a sportscar enthusiast hate Ferrari? We have to be thankfull for their enormous contribution to sportcar developments over the years and provinding a motivation for Porsche to better themselves and compete against. I always thought that Porsche philosophy yielded a better overall product and was on their side in racing but I will never forget a ride in a F40 when I was a kid and have enormous respect for Ferrari.
Carlos from Spain
09-12-2001, 05:28 PM
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I agree with Spain Carlos, it looks like Porsche is going to a wrong direction.
I understand all the economy issues here, but I'd be more willing to believe their 'theory if they had one car like 928 was or even SUV too (I do know it will be fast) but with 911 that would more be a car that really is 'true sports car'. IMO they should/could have more 'strip down race car' type model(s) that they could produce w/ less money (or not) and maybe have one 911 model w/ more luxury (or have one model which you could order w/ any kind of options, from engine to luxury 'things'). Now they are adding cup holders to all 911's and have only one model which is really 'race car' (with comes w/ a huge price tag, so that really is not 'normal' 911 model) I guess only because they need one really 'true Porsche car' to maintain their status as a 'pure race car'. Everything else is going more luxury, comfortable direction.
Only my ,02 cents, but that's the feeling I'm having. Sure there are many people who like to have their 911 w/ all kind of GPS systems, cupholders, automatic transmissions (that I really can't understand) etc. but my opinion is against that. Bad thing is that it seems Porsche people are not listening guys who feeel like me.
Maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong but it doesn't look like that.
I understand all the economy issues here, but I'd be more willing to believe their 'theory if they had one car like 928 was or even SUV too (I do know it will be fast) but with 911 that would more be a car that really is 'true sports car'. IMO they should/could have more 'strip down race car' type model(s) that they could produce w/ less money (or not) and maybe have one 911 model w/ more luxury (or have one model which you could order w/ any kind of options, from engine to luxury 'things'). Now they are adding cup holders to all 911's and have only one model which is really 'race car' (with comes w/ a huge price tag, so that really is not 'normal' 911 model) I guess only because they need one really 'true Porsche car' to maintain their status as a 'pure race car'. Everything else is going more luxury, comfortable direction.
Only my ,02 cents, but that's the feeling I'm having. Sure there are many people who like to have their 911 w/ all kind of GPS systems, cupholders, automatic transmissions (that I really can't understand) etc. but my opinion is against that. Bad thing is that it seems Porsche people are not listening guys who feeel like me.
Maybe (hopefully) I'm wrong but it doesn't look like that.
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09-13-2001, 07:12 PM
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I hear ya, Flying Finn!
Would be nice to bring the RS´s back! Sure keep the 996 with all the luxury options (after all I own one with all the Millenium extras) but also make a wider range of models towards the sportier side. I had to order mine with the 030 suspensions and larger wheels before I wouuld drive it off the lot because I found the set-up to confort oriented for a Porsche.
Would it be hard to build a 2750lbs 996RS w/o any toys and maybe 20HP more? No. There is just no interest for that in the way the company is being runned lately. And they are appealing to a different buyer than before which is more numerous and will report larger sales for them but we get the kick in the ...
I´ve seen the same thing with BMW M over the years, compare the E30-M3 with the E36-M3 and now with the E46-M3. More power but less raw handling, heavier and softer. Well, BMW is not a pure sportcar company but Porsche has always been since Ferry´s time... until now.
Carlos from Spain
Would be nice to bring the RS´s back! Sure keep the 996 with all the luxury options (after all I own one with all the Millenium extras) but also make a wider range of models towards the sportier side. I had to order mine with the 030 suspensions and larger wheels before I wouuld drive it off the lot because I found the set-up to confort oriented for a Porsche.
Would it be hard to build a 2750lbs 996RS w/o any toys and maybe 20HP more? No. There is just no interest for that in the way the company is being runned lately. And they are appealing to a different buyer than before which is more numerous and will report larger sales for them but we get the kick in the ...
I´ve seen the same thing with BMW M over the years, compare the E30-M3 with the E36-M3 and now with the E46-M3. More power but less raw handling, heavier and softer. Well, BMW is not a pure sportcar company but Porsche has always been since Ferry´s time... until now.
Carlos from Spain
10-27-2001, 01:11 AM
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I think some of you guys have flipped.The Boxster S for the money is perfect for a person who cant afford the more expensive models in the Porsche lineup. What a great way to introduce people to the excellence in engineering that comes from Porsche. And for the purists out there who feel the 996TT has compromised the turbo mystique, get a GT and do a few loops. The old nose in the air makes a perfect pivot point Congratulations Porsche, the best lineup in the industry.