Riccardo

Hello Guys,

Over the past few days or so I have been having this crazy idea of changing my current 93 C2 964 for a brand new C2 996. The problem is that I cannot afford to pay cash for a new 996, hence I'd have to lease or contract hire it (if anyone in the UK knows the options and differences in monetary terms please let me know).

I have a few questions:

- Anyone here jumped from a 964 to a 996? I can imagine these cars have practically nothing in common apart from engine layout and the Porsche crest. What prompted your change and what do you think (as in, was it worth the 4x price difference)?

- How many of you lease you car? Do you find it a financial burden? I am young and single, so I don't have many fixed outgoings apart from rent. Would you advise a 25 yr old to get on a lease/hire agreement?

The reasons for considering a new 996 are mainly the peace of mind, the car will be covered by a 3 yr warranty and should cost much less to run than my 964. Plus, I don't have to worry about big expenses (like clutch, engine rebuild, suspension changes etc). Another reason is that I could probably fit in it properly and thus take it on a track (I see there is an option in the UK to lower the driver seat by 10mm). Finally, its always nice to buy your very own brand new car! My only problem is that its might be stretching my budget a bit too far...

By the way, I do about 7k miles per year.

Thanks for any feedback.

DonW-Cape Cod

You ask a very complex question, Riccardo, so here's my .02 for part of it. Leasing is "renting" the car for a specific perior as you know, so unless you can write off part of it for business expenses, I wouldn't lease...and expecially if you turned your 964 in to reduce your payments.

The 964 (I owned a 90C2Cab and a 94 Speedster) has performance statistics not too different from a 996 because lower hp is offset by lighter weight. It's also a simpler car to maintain (assuming you have the flywheel, distributor belt and oil leaking problems dealt with)

The 964 is definitely cheaper to maintain. If your car is well maintained and is reliable I guess you're just getting "itchy" for a new Pcar, which is a very subjective decision. Good luck.

Bins

Riccardo,

Although you are not asking anyone to dissuade you from a 996, wouldnt you prefer to purchase a property instead.

I know its wonderful to buy a brand new car at least once in your life, but youre still young - all in good time.

If you really want a new 996, you know the cars gonna depreciate. You could buy nearly new for the moment, with whatever warranty is left.

By the way, I know someone who is selling a black 2002 cab with hard top and black soft top and interior. I believe it is selling in the late 60s. If they havent sold it already.

Shark01

I agree with Bins here. Prices on '99 Cabs have dropped around $30k in 3 yrs. Buy property, or invest in large caps instead

CMJ

Riccardo - I have a 996 C2 98. I have just purchased a 964 C2 60,000 miles 3 owner car red with black interior for my brother. Hence I have just enlisted on the Titanic boards !!! I have driven the 2 cars back to back and as a 996 owner who also does about 7000 miles (on the track !!) I would swap my 996 for a 964 any day (plus cash of course) Cheaper to maintain. Next to no depreciation and air cooled. 993 may be but dont go for a 996. It's just not the same and thats from a 996 owner !! (I do love anything Porsche though)

Leeds Gulick

Someone stated above that the less horsepower of the 964 was offset by its lower weight. The 964 (manual coupe 2wd) weighs 1375 kilos and the 996 (manual coupe 2wd 2002) weighs 1345, or 30 kilos (about 66 pounds) less than the 964 (993 weighs even more at 1390 kilos). Power difference is 320 versus 247, or 73 hp (996 has almost 30% more power). Not only that but the 996 has much better low end and better gearing. The 996 has closer spaced gears than either the 964 and the U.S. 993 (early ROW gearing was good in the 993) and has a 600 or 700 higher red line.

I've owned a 964 ('92 RS America), a 993 ('95), a 993 Turbo and a 996 ('99) (also 914, 914/6 race car, 2 911SCs, 2 928s, 944 race car). While the 996 isn't as fast as the Turbo (4wd deadens steering feel) it is more responsive and handles better. While the 996 doesn't have as much of the traditional 911 feel still felt in the 2wd 964, it has more than the 993. Also, the 996 (993 as well) handles much better in stock form than the 964. In other words the 964 benefits a lot from lowering and suspension upgrades while the later cars benefit less.

There are many other reasons why the 996 is better. The down sides are the styling in a number of people's eyes (less agressive and 911-like), the interior (not traditional, many separate dash pieces that often sqeak), sound (new car much better), etc.

Leeds

DonW-Cape Cod

Hi Leeds..My 94 (964) Speedster weighed less than that, was chipped and lightened. A lot more fun than my 02 C4 Cab, but very restrictive use. BTW, I used to live in Bellevue...on 169th St, SE, 98008, facing Lake Sammamish. Really enjoyed my time out there (91-97)

Andreas.

I understand what Riccardo says as :I don't have to worry about big expenses (like clutch, engine rebuild, suspension changes etc).

More than a year ago i was looking for my first Porsche. And i was looking for a 964 C4 anniversary model..( I love that one) i get in touch at the time with 2 owners, who tell m that they have some normal problems with.
I found it out that they leave a lot of money at the dealer.
Then I went to another oficial dealer in another city. This guy tell me to stay away from this model because all the small problems they have..and the cost$$$

As i hate to go to the dealer and handle that kind of problems, i get my 996, second hand but running great.

Said that, maybe some models are running better thant others, maybe you have to be lucky..!(also i preferer much more the look of a 964 more than a 993).
This is a personal point of vue.

riclaw

Riccardo,

I have just bought my first porsche (911 c4s) in the UK. I have no regrets. Interest rates are so low at the moment it seemed criminal to buy outright and not play with the money elsewhere.

You are not buying the car as an investment so get the car you want and live now, with one eye on the future.

Rich

Christer

Riccardo

If you have say £600+ per month to lease a 996, why are you worried about repair costs? In less than a year, you would have spent enough money on leasing to pay for an engine rebuild AND a gearbox rebuild as well. Plus the fact that you have near to zero depreciation costs, PLUS if you have an engine rebuild done at say £4500 it will actually add some value to the car if it is done by a reputable outfit - allright, not the whole £4500 but certainly £1500 or so.

I don't think it is the economics talking here....

Christer

bloke

Rico,

At your age, stick to your car. Frankly, cars are like money pit. If, you are worried about your finances then the 996 isnt for you. The is expensive and resale isnt like the 993. So, go and buy a flat and then later on go and get a TT. Also, I wouldnt advice buying stocks(all over valued in the states).

I had a 90 964 then trade it for a 97 M3 and now i currently drive 2000 996. Now if i didnt do all the resale and trading up. I would have probably gotten into a TT for the same cost. So, if you ultimate porsche is a TT like myself then wait.

Riccardo

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your responses, its always great to be able to air ones Porsche thoughts and get all this excellent feedback.

To clarify things a bit on my side, there are two reasons for which I originally thought of a brand new 996. The first one was that I can choose my own spec (like sport seats exhaust and suspension, litronics and interior/exterior colours) and the second is that, at least in theory, I would probably have very litle maintenace costs (as everything should be covered by the warranty and the services cost almost 1/3 rd of those for the 964). Instead of spending around £2500 a year to maintain the 964 I'd be spending £300, but of course there is the higher cost of insurance and the car payments (£7200 per year..?).

However, its true what many of you have said, its a lot of car and money for someone just starting his career. There is also another big prob, that I don't really want to be 'tied' to anything (thats why I rent my flat instead of buying it), and obviously going for the lease/hire option ties me down.

So, I guess that wraps up my crazy idea idea for now. Still, I might well be back next year or when my situation gets better. I wasn't that bothered by the 3.4 996s, but everyone seems to be raving about the 3.6 ones so much that I find myself actually wanting one! Maybe I'll drop by my local dealer and do a test drive...

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Bins

Riccardo,

Sensible idea.

I know its good to feel that you have no mortgage commitments, plus the freedom of moving. I used to feel the same.
But that means that your rent money is going straight down the drain. Unless of course your rent is extremely low.

Kostas Vassiliadis

Hi Riccardo,

I am 52 years old and bought my first Porsche at the age of 49 (a second hand Boxster). In my country a porsche is a very expensive toy due to taxation and I couldn't afford one earlier, although I have changed more than 30 cars up until now, including all Mitsubishi EVOs starting with evo4, BMW M3s and Imprezas. Two of my three porsches (the 993 and now the 996), however, have been the best that happened to me. That's the background.

As to your question I would simply stay for the moment with the 964, thoroughly enjoy it and than a bit later, when my finances woulf really make it a reasonable decision move up the ladder. I would also recommend you go for a second hand car. You lose a lot less money this way, especially if you are (like myself) a person who likes changes in his life.

Do enjoy your life taking it one at a time - don't rush things

Kostas <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Todd

I believe one of two things happen when you buy something "fairly" luxurious which you cannot readily/easily afford.

A) It makes you so happy that it creates an intense motivation to work harder/smarter/more to keep it and buy more things like it.

B) The financial side of it is so much more than you should have comfortably spent that it becomes a burden. Although you really like it, when you see it it tends to cause you to frown more than smile because of the responsibility which comes with it.


I have personally found the best solution for this is to have some very nice things for your self(you already have a 964) and continue to look ahead. The "working for" and anticipation that one day you KNOW you will have one is almost as enjoyable as having the actual and it's free...