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-   -   Sensors that can cause turn over but no start (https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1349967-sensors-that-can-cause-turn-over-but-no-start.html)

Porschetech3 09-01-2023 01:22 PM

There is your problem !!!!

Red/blue is the 12v power to just about every sensor on the engine, it has two big splices where 6-8 wires are all spliced together, the main power comes from the MFI/DI relay..

Since you have the 12v at the MAF but only 5.8v at the ISC, your issue will closer to the splice near the the ISC...

MAF, ISC, both cam sensors, all change over valves, purge valve, ect all are powered by the red/blue and go through one of the two big splices...

If it is a bad connection and not a "shorted wire" you could do a temporary jumper wire anywhere near the ISC, and see if she runs.....

Then get down to the nitty gritty and trace the haness to pinpoint and repair the issue...








QUOTE=Porschenstein;18991443]https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...48bb395e29.jpg[/QUOTE]

Porschenstein 09-01-2023 01:47 PM

Awesome thanks, I hope this is it, definitely seems to make sense... "two big splices where 6-8 wires are all spliced together" anyone know where this spot is to keep me from digging?

jumpy chunky 09-01-2023 02:15 PM

Okay this gets a little convoluted at least for me.

term 86 at MFI relay gets power from fuse C1 through weld point 25. Main relay at DME pin27
grounds coil and term 87 feeds power to weld point 26. Pin 8 at X connector 59/1 receives that 12volts and feeds to weld point 9 which powers the idle speed control.

DME pin 54 gets power from weld point 26 which in turn it uses to power the variocam solenoids.

hope this is of some use….

Porschetech3 09-01-2023 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by jumpy chunky (Post 18991781)
Okay this gets a little convoluted at least for me.

term 86 at MFI relay gets power from fuse C1 through weld point 25. Main relay at DME pin27
grounds coil and term 87 feeds power to weld point 26. Pin 8 at X connector 59/1 receives that 12volts and feeds to weld point 9 which powers the idle speed control.

DME pin 54 gets power from weld point 26 which in turn it uses to power the variocam solenoids.

hope this is of some use….

The DME doesn't power the variocam solenoids, it "grounds" the solenoids to activate them....

BTW ; that brings up an old memory of a variocam solenoid that was causing a low voltage on the red/blue circuit due to a partially shorted solenoid ... Disconnect both variocam solenoids to see if the 12v power returns to normal..





Porschenstein 09-01-2023 02:27 PM

Duh, never mind, assuming it's this. I was thinking lower in the car and got wet. Haven't opened it to look at the splice but this didn't get wet.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...49b26b2ad9.jpg

Porschenstein 09-01-2023 03:01 PM

@Porschetech3, I just noticed you said two splices, is the splice near the the ISC in the engine bay?
I have 12.8v at this splice. Thanks
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5029f936be.jpg

Porschetech3 09-01-2023 03:18 PM

Yes the other big splice is in the engine bay in the engine harness, but before you go digging for it, disconnect the Variocam Solenoids.

Jumpy's comment made me remember a case I had where one of the variocam solenoids was partially shorted causing low voltage on the red/blue circuit...









Porschenstein 09-01-2023 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by Porschetech3 (Post 18991912)
Yes the other big splice is in the engine bay in the engine harness, but before you go digging for it, disconnect the Variocam Solenoids.

Jumpy's comment made me remember a case I had where one of the variocam solenoids was partially shorted causing low voltage on the red/blue circuit...

Thanks, I’ll do that next. They probably did get wet.

Porschenstein 09-01-2023 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by Porschetech3 (Post 18991912)
Yes the other big splice is in the engine bay in the engine harness, but before you go digging for it, disconnect the Variocam Solenoids.

Jumpy's comment made me remember a case I had where one of the variocam solenoids was partially shorted causing low voltage on the red/blue circuit...

Both unplugged, no change here:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f70a95823b.jpg

No power to either vc solenoid with ignition on, but hoping maybe they only get power if they're activated?

jumpy chunky 09-02-2023 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by Porschetech3 (Post 18991805)
The DME doesn't power the variocam solenoids, it "grounds" the solenoids to activate them....

BTW ; that brings up an old memory of a variocam solenoid that was causing a low voltage on the red/blue circuit due to a partially shorted solenoid ... Disconnect both variocam solenoids to see if the 12v power returns to normal..



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5c1b421bbc.png
This exchange was posted on Rennlist site and sounds interesting and accurate.

jumpy chunky 09-02-2023 09:55 AM

Porschestien,

looks like the vario cams get 12volts from weld point 9 as well as the idle speed positioner.

You could take a gander at the X59/1 connector where pin 4 and pin 8 reside. Might still have iffy connection in connector.

looks like pin 4 supplies power to injectors and coils if I’m not mistaken, which is entirely possible and I’m always open to criticism and or correction.

Porschenstein 09-02-2023 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by jumpy chunky;[url=tel:18992954
18992954[/url]]Porschestien,

looks like the vario cams get 12volts from weld point 9 as well as the idle speed positioner.

You could take a gander at the X59/1 connector where pin 4 and pin 8 reside. Might still have iffy connection in connector.

looks like pin 4 supplies power to injectors and coils if I’m not mistaken, which is entirely possible and I’m always open to criticism and or correction.

Thanks, I will definitely be looking at the x59’s and RE/BL circuit in the engine harness next.

Porschetech3 09-02-2023 01:37 PM

Yea that post only tells half the story with no conclusion...

It also insinuates that the vario-cam solenoids gets power from the DME, but it does not....Vario-cam solenoids gets power straight from the battery through the MFI/DI relay and two splices and the x59/1 connector


Originally Posted by jumpy chunky (Post 18992919)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5c1b421bbc.png
This exchange was posted on Rennlist site and sounds interesting and accurate.

This is correct VVVVV ...


Originally Posted by jumpy chunky (Post 18992954)
Porschestien,

looks like the vario cams get 12volts from weld point 9 as well as the idle speed positioner.

You could take a gander at the X59/1 connector where pin 4 and pin 8 reside. Might still have iffy connection in connector.

looks like pin 4 supplies power to injectors and coils if I’m not mistaken, which is entirely possible and I’m always open to criticism and or correction.

The DME does not control the engine by controlling the power, it controls the "ground circuit" to the already powered components, ie. injectors , coils, solenoids, switches ect.. The only power the DME sends is a "5v reference voltage" to get feedback from hall sensors, rheostats, and variable resisters type sensors...

All DME's, ECU's, EEC's, I have ever had the pleasure to troubleshoot work in this way, they are a big fast grounding device...


















Porschetech3 09-02-2023 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Porschenstein (Post 18992964)
Thanks, I will definitely be looking at the x59’s and RE/BL circuit in the engine harness next.

Disconnect the purge valve, the change-over valve for the resonance flap, the change-over valve for SAI , also the change-over valve for Tiptronic if equipped,leave the vario-cam solenoids unplugged, then check to see if the 12v to red/blue at the ISC is returned to normal...

If not then jump to mid-point at the x59/1 pin 8 to see if 12v is there...This should eliminate half the wiring as a possible ..

Low voltage on the red/blue circuit will keep the injector relay from even turning on.....








Porschenstein 09-03-2023 02:55 PM

I'm not really sure what's what as far as these, but here is what I looked at today...
Valve or Pump in the fuel expansion / evap tank in the passenger fender well:
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...db3ada9c35.jpg


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