hardtailer

The right unit is kWh not kW/h....it's a product of power (in kW) multiplied by the time the power is supplied (in hours) yielding work or an amount of energy..
Analogy: You can have 2 horses plow a field in 1 hour and they'll have done work of 2 horsepower x 1 hour=2hphours. Alternatively you can have 1 horse plow the same field in 2hours: 1 horsepower x 2 hours = 2hphours.
The work being done is the same in both cases, namely the field has been plowed and the work amounted to 2hphours in both of them.
KW/h is Power per hour and is something different and describes a change of power per hour.

Another quantityand unit that is often written wrong is (the unit for) torque which is expressed in a force times the length of an arm perpendicular to said force. It's expressed as N×m or Nm or lbs x ft, or lbs•ft, not lbs/ft or ft/lbs as is often written but wrong nonetheless in case a unit of torque is meant.

I'll get off my soapbox now and let.you go on with the discussion.

charlieaf92

Thanks for clarifying. I've honestly been a little confused about it. So what you're saying is a 75kwh pack is capable of supplying a constant energy stream of 75kw for an hour? And, when you're charging at let's say 12kw/h you're actually using 12kw continuously but being billed for that rate at an hourly basis?

ZuffenZeus

In the production business, our Li-ion battery packs are rated by Wh (or mAh) which gives us a rough indication of how much time we have based on the current draw of the equipment we're running.

ZuffenZeus

The first part of your analogy is true: That is, two horses working a field for 1 hour = 2Hh (i.e. 2 horse hrs), but the second analogy is flawed. You work one horse for two hours on the same field and by the end of the 2nd hour, the horse is dehydrated, falls over dead, and the field is half done. That's reality.

GC996

All this EV talk is fantastic. EV is the future, as along as its paired with an ICE engine to charge it. Now that every car manufacturer is now in the EV game and enhancing EV technology, we are now watching the evolution of the car industry to phase 2 of the HYBRID Era.

Thru creative destruction, the EV evolution had made itself obsolete due to continued battery limitations and therefore distance. Yes, battery storage will get better, but you still need to charge it. Easiest and cleanest way is to slap a fuel and emissions efficient synthetic fuel powered ICE engine to it. Bring on 250 miles per gallon hybrids that are just as fast and powerful as today's EV cars.

Dont believe me? Porsche teams up with Mobil, Siemens, and Chilean and Brazilian companies to manufacture clean synthetic fuel for the future. They then use that fuel for the last 2 years in the Porsche Cup series to test and refine it. Along the way Porsche and Audi decide that they want to get into F1, but only if they will mandate 100% synthetic fuel in 2026.

VW corporate then gets rid of their CEO and replaces him with Porsche's CEO of which the focus of Porsche and Audi are now on hybrids. Funny how last year I got my Audis serviced and the dealership was discussing all EV by 2026. Now the talk is EV powered hybrids.

Volvo just rolled out a major campaign on their EV powered hybrids discussing the added benefit and safety of having a hybrid versus a pure EV in your travels.

So the point is this, yep electric is trendy, heart warming, exciting with the constant power and speed, but it's already obsolete.

Bring on the synthetic fuel driven turbo hybrids. That's not only the environmental, infrastructure and practical solution to a world dominated by ICE power, but it's also the performance solution.

No, I am not anti pure electric car. I love it. I just recognize a laser disk player when I see one.

ADD: the direction of the car industry ensures that ICE power will be around long into the future. It also make sure the 996 will be enjoyed long into the future. Go long dual hybrid power and short mono EV power. Maintain positions in 996 ICE power.

Mike Murphy

The question I have is: “what percentage of drivers (in the U.S.) need to have more range than about 250-300 miles per day? The answer might explain whether or not hybrid is really the future or if pure electric only will work.

I do think hybrid is better, because it’s a dual-fuel solution, and I don’t like single-threaded energy solutions for the future. Having more than one fuel source is good. I’d like to see a very small ICE engine added to an EV to help prevent someone getting stranded somewhere.

GC996

Dupe.

GC996

Good question Mike. I would bet more than we think. At the end of the day, practicality wins.

300-350 miles a charge and all of the inconvenience with the battery recharge

Or

250 miles per gallon on a 15 gallon tank after 3,750 miles with the same performance as the EV.

Which one looks better to anybody buying a new car?

It's a no brainer whether you drive to get groceries or to your next meeting 300 miles away in Michigan.

Not to mention, which one will solve the environmental problems more effectively.

Who cares if you have to pay $20 a gallon for synthetic fuel thats clean, if you get 250 miles to the gallon.

hardtailer

75kW for an hour, correct (and 150kW for half an hour and so forth, although there is a limit, denoted by C for each battery. 10C meaning a max of 750kW for 6 minutes).
Re '12kw/h' short answer: yes, that's probably how it is meant (by the providers of charging points?) or how you could understand it. But the units are not correct. It should be, for example, 10 USD/h@12kW (and something less than 5 USD/hr when charging at 6kW).
HTH.

ETA: The unit kW, kilowatt, has the 'per unit of time' already incorporated into it, as 1 Watt equals 1 Joule per second. 1 joule is an amount of energy (like 1 calorie is).
In that sense it's similar to 'knot' to express speed. 1 knot equals one nautical mile per hour. Just like you wouldn't speak of 1 knot/h to express speed, kW/h isn't correct to express a charging rate (or charging speed). Only kW is.

Mike Murphy

250 miles per gallon sounds great! Is that EV/battery + ICE with modern fuels, some type of tiny nuclear system, hydrogen, or something else?

GC996

Hah! EV+Battery+ICE. Could be synthetic fuel or petrol. If its up to Porsche and all of the oil Partners in F1, it may be with with synthetic fuel. Its another revenue stream that assures their future.

Alot of us forget that the Porsche 918 got 100 mpg in its hybrid mode. Technology on both ev and ice have come along way since then and will go much further over the next few years. It's not a matter of if, but when.

Mike Murphy

Yeah, I guess it’s also important to note that ICE efficiency used to be 20, 25% not long ago, and we’re seeing 40, 45, close to 50% these days.

Next up: road trains with smart cars where one car leads the pack and they take turns like they do in bicycle racing!

GC996

I am waiting to see when all the knuckleheads that think ev power is more environmentally friendly wake up and realize the damage that is being done to the third world's landscape and all of the pollution, land and water that is being contaminated with the mining of the resources to build these freeking inefficient batteries to move these overweight cars to and from soccer games. But I digress....

philbert996

Oh great, the EV/human centipede.
Are Tesla’s in the front or back?

Mike Murphy

In the front going downhill to charge the batteries, but after that, not sure!