Notices
996 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: LN Engineering

2004 Boxster 2.5, manual 1-3 rear timing chain

 
Old 07-09-2019, 08:49 PM
  #1  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default 2004 Boxster 2.5, manual 1-3 rear timing chain

Replacing the IMS bearing. Removed the 1-3 rear timing chain tensioner. It fired out from the case.
Removed the Oil pump. The slack side of the chain, tensioner side is so tight it is pulling the IMS shaft
against the case on the 1-3 side. I ordered a bore scope to try to see what is happening with that chain.
Does any one know if the chain tensioner plastic guides fail and wedge against the chain?
LOevco1001 is offline  
Old 07-10-2019, 12:11 AM
  #2  
kromdom
Super User
 
kromdom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,203
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

also try asking in the BOXSTER forum:

https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...-986-forum-67/
kromdom is offline  
The following users liked this post:
LOevco1001 (07-10-2019)
Old 07-10-2019, 12:35 AM
  #3  
808Bill
Super User
 
808Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kauai
Posts: 4,831
Received 17 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Did you pin the crank and lock the cams before removing the tensioner?
808Bill is offline  
Old 07-10-2019, 10:42 AM
  #4  
dporto
Super User
 
dporto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: L.I. NY
Posts: 3,809
Likes: 0
Received 24 Likes on 11 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 808Bill View Post
Did you pin the crank and lock the cams before removing the tensioner?

^^^This^^^ The crank is supposed to be pinned/locked in the TDC position (there's a hole in the Crank pulely that aligns with a boss on the block). I believe this reduces/removes the tension on the IMS. I'm not sure what your options are now that "the cat's out of the bag" so to speak. I know you're not the first to make this mistake, so stay calm and be sure not to compound your problems by doing something hasty.
dporto is offline  
The following users liked this post:
LOevco1001 (07-10-2019)
Old 07-10-2019, 11:13 AM
  #5  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I also posted on the Boxster forum. Thanks.
LOevco1001 is offline  
Old 07-10-2019, 01:14 PM
  #6  
808Bill
Super User
 
808Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kauai
Posts: 4,831
Received 17 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LOevco1001 View Post
I also posted on the Boxster forum. Thanks.
But, did you do what was asked above first?
808Bill is offline  
The following users liked this post:
LOevco1001 (07-10-2019)
Old 07-10-2019, 03:49 PM
  #7  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by dporto View Post
^^^This^^^ The crank is supposed to be pinned/locked in the TDC position (there's a hole in the Crank pulely that aligns with a boss on the block). I believe this reduces/removes the tension on the IMS. I'm not sure what your options are now that "the cat's out of the bag" so to speak. I know you're not the first to make this mistake, so stay calm and be sure not to compound your problems by doing something hasty.
I followed the procedure in the 101 Performance Projects for Your Porsche Boxster book. Project 14 IMS
bearing removal. I used the 3 setscrew method to lock the IMS sprocket. I marked the cam locations
as per this article.The cam locations have not changed.
Unfortunately, the 2015 updated procedure is not in the book. It includes the pinning and locking of the camshafts.
I do not have the timing tool. So I will have to make one.
BTW Before starting this removal, I removed the plugs and checked the timing. The engine was timed on both banks.
LOevco1001 is offline  
Old 07-10-2019, 09:52 PM
  #8  
Flat6 Innovations
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Flat6 Innovations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cleveland Georgia
Posts: 5,307
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

You followed the wrong procedure.
You now have compromised cam timing, and will have to re-time the engine.

The engine must be locked at TDC, crank pinned, and camshafts locked. This is why I include in my classes “ most mistakes related to IMSR procedures occur in the first 5 minutes of the operation”
__________________
Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution:
US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


www.flat6innovations.com
Engine Failure Hotline- 706-219.4874

M96/ M97/ 9a1 Engine Specialists-
-Extensive Internal Engine Repairs
-Performance Updated Engines

-Engine Rebuild Training Courses
Flat6 Innovations is offline  
The following users liked this post:
LOevco1001 (07-10-2019)
Old 07-10-2019, 10:10 PM
  #9  
AnthonyGS
User
 
AnthonyGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 658
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

DOH!
AnthonyGS is offline  
Old 07-10-2019, 11:34 PM
  #10  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thank your quick reply and your succinct information. I will re-time this engine after replacing the bearing.
Obviously, my research led me to the wrong facts.
Why should I use your Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974?
LOevco1001 is offline  
Old 07-10-2019, 11:37 PM
  #11  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AnthonyGS View Post
DOH!
Thanks for your help.
LOevco1001 is offline  
Old 07-11-2019, 12:05 AM
  #12  
Flat6 Innovations
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Flat6 Innovations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cleveland Georgia
Posts: 5,307
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LOevco1001 View Post
Thank your quick reply and your succinct information. I will re-time this engine after replacing the bearing.
Obviously, my research led me to the wrong facts.
Why should I use your Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974?
This is what you use if you want to fit a dual row bearing to a factory single row shaft. The Faultless tool delivers the bearing, with itís internal wire lock into the IMS shaft. This requires compression of the internal wire lock, as the bearing is being pressed into the IMS shaft housing bore.

Also, in your original post you did not mention removal of the IMS tensioner, on the bank 1-3 tensioner. Did you remove the IMS tensioner? It dounes like you didnít. This tensioner forces the IMS assembly toward bank 1-3.

It sounds like you have multiple issues with the procedure. Not to bust your ***** about it, as making a mistake is bad enough punishment. Its important that others see what you did wrong, so they learn from your mistakes. Just because a procedure has been inked into a book, doesnít mean that itís the most risk- free, comprehensive way of doing the job.
__________________
Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution:
US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


www.flat6innovations.com
Engine Failure Hotline- 706-219.4874

M96/ M97/ 9a1 Engine Specialists-
-Extensive Internal Engine Repairs
-Performance Updated Engines

-Engine Rebuild Training Courses
Flat6 Innovations is offline  
Old 07-11-2019, 11:41 AM
  #13  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

"Also, in your original post you did not mention removal of the IMS tensioner, on the bank 1-3 tensioner. Did you remove the IMS tensioner? It dounes like you didn’t. This tensioner forces the IMS assembly toward bank 1-3."
Yes, I did remove the 1-3 tensioner. If you read the first line of the first post in this thread you would know that I was concerned that the tensioner did not act properly
when removed. In fact, it will not thread back into the case . As stated in the first post, the slack side of the chain is very tight. Consequently, my question about the guide failure and wedging the chain slack side.
LOevco1001 is offline  
Old 07-11-2019, 11:56 AM
  #14  
Flat6 Innovations
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
Flat6 Innovations's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Cleveland Georgia
Posts: 5,307
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 24 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LOevco1001 View Post
"Also, in your original post you did not mention removal of the IMS tensioner, on the bank 1-3 tensioner. Did you remove the IMS tensioner? It dounes like you didn’t. This tensioner forces the IMS assembly toward bank 1-3."
Yes, I did remove the 1-3 tensioner. If you read the first line of the first post in this thread you would know that I was concerned that the tensioner did not act properly
when removed. In fact, it will not thread back into the case . As stated in the first post, the slack side of the chain is very tight. Consequently, my question about the guide failure and wedging the chain slack side.
It was clear that you removed the 1-3 tensioner.

What wasn’t clear was if you also removed the tensioner that applies force to the IMS tensioner paddle. This one is at crankcase center, and faces right to left, accessed from the bank 2 side of the crankcase.

Basically, how many hydraulic tensioners have been removed from the engine?
__________________
Flat 6 Innovations
Inventor of the IMS Solution:
US Patents 8,992,089, 9,416,697 & 9,909,469

Inventor of the Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit, and Faultless Tool with method of installation:
US Patent 9,687,974


www.flat6innovations.com
Engine Failure Hotline- 706-219.4874

M96/ M97/ 9a1 Engine Specialists-
-Extensive Internal Engine Repairs
-Performance Updated Engines

-Engine Rebuild Training Courses
Flat6 Innovations is offline  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:03 PM
  #15  
LOevco1001
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Yes I did remove both the tensioners at the back, clutch, end of the engine.

"Also, in your original post you did not mention removal of the IMS tensioner, on the bank 1-3 tensioner. Did you remove the IMS tensioner? It dounes like you didn’t. This tensioner forces the IMS assembly toward bank 1-3.

It sounds like you have multiple issues with the procedure. Not to bust your ***** about it, as making a mistake is bad enough punishment. Its important that others see what you did wrong, so they learn from your mistakes. Just because a procedure has been inked into a book, doesn’t mean that it’s the most risk- free, comprehensive way of doing the job.Both tensioners , 1-3 and the crank to the IMS sprocket, at the back of the engine."

I have determined that the 1-3 chain, guides, cams, and vario timing guides are in good shape. Since I made the set screw
mistake; is it still possible to use your Faultless tool and install your double row IMS bearing and kit?

Last edited by LOevco1001; 07-16-2019 at 04:08 PM. Reason: clearify the post and ask another question.
LOevco1001 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: