Time for a Tesla?
06-10-2019, 04:42 PM
#31
I was actually in the market for a used Model S or new Model 3 before buying my first Porsche car(996). I currently drive an all electric VW e-Golf and it feels like a gokart, but the 996 is so much more fun to drive. I'm sure a Tesla would feel the same, but I'm happy with the 996.
06-10-2019, 05:07 PM
#32
Race Director
I drove a Tesla Roadster years ago - I thought it was much more compelling than the Model 3. The Lotus body and the bleeding-edge powertrain I found interesting.
In my opinion, which is neither learned nor esteemed, Tesla is much more useful as a market disruptor than as an addition to your garage. When the first Teslas actually emerged from the vaporware, the Bolt and Leaf were plainly visible for exactly what they were: placeholders for real cars, cardboard stand-ins because that's all the automotive industry could be bothered to produce. Jobs with the iPhone and Musk with Tesla shamed their respective industries. I believe Musk catapulted the electric car state of the art an entire generation forward in just a few years.
I hope Musk makes a s**t-ton more money - he deserves it in exchange for the unflagging, exuberant hubris he chucks at the universe. However, I don't think I want to buy a car from the man.
In my opinion, which is neither learned nor esteemed, Tesla is much more useful as a market disruptor than as an addition to your garage. When the first Teslas actually emerged from the vaporware, the Bolt and Leaf were plainly visible for exactly what they were: placeholders for real cars, cardboard stand-ins because that's all the automotive industry could be bothered to produce. Jobs with the iPhone and Musk with Tesla shamed their respective industries. I believe Musk catapulted the electric car state of the art an entire generation forward in just a few years.
I hope Musk makes a s**t-ton more money - he deserves it in exchange for the unflagging, exuberant hubris he chucks at the universe. However, I don't think I want to buy a car from the man.
06-10-2019, 05:10 PM
#33
Team Owner
I've driven against a few on track (in my F10 BMW 550i) and was leaving them in the dust, the P100D or whatever versions too. They are heavy and from what I can tell don't drive great around a corner, but that's not their schtick, so makes sense. But this is like comparing an Accord Sport to a 996 and expecting a reasonable answer lol... Not even in the same league, nor sport to compare the two.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/
06-10-2019, 10:44 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Problem is,,, at the end of the day,, a Tesla has the carbon footprint of a Boeing 737.
(Well maybe not that bad but,, building a thousand lbs of lithium battery ain't eco friendly.)
Cadmium and Lithium are becoming the new "blood diamonds" , the conditions the miners work in are horrific.
It takes tones of soil to be moved for as little as 10 grams of lithium.
The power that charges the car is simply moving the emissions/impact elsewhere.
I have a EV because its Cheap and convenient. I got it for < 200 a month.. and it saves me about 200 a month in gas.
The hydrogen cars have way more potential to drop the impact than any storage battery solution,,
if we can get people over the Hindenburg effect. Tesla has already made his pile off the venture.
He is not getting hurt.
I like the electric car from a toaster perspective, but I like my simple Honda Fit EV,,
the Clarity is a disaster of a EV, only their Hybrid and Hydrogen versions make any sense.
(Well maybe not that bad but,, building a thousand lbs of lithium battery ain't eco friendly.)
Cadmium and Lithium are becoming the new "blood diamonds" , the conditions the miners work in are horrific.
It takes tones of soil to be moved for as little as 10 grams of lithium.
The power that charges the car is simply moving the emissions/impact elsewhere.
I have a EV because its Cheap and convenient. I got it for < 200 a month.. and it saves me about 200 a month in gas.
The hydrogen cars have way more potential to drop the impact than any storage battery solution,,
if we can get people over the Hindenburg effect. Tesla has already made his pile off the venture.
He is not getting hurt.
I like the electric car from a toaster perspective, but I like my simple Honda Fit EV,,
the Clarity is a disaster of a EV, only their Hybrid and Hydrogen versions make any sense.
06-11-2019, 01:42 AM
#35
Instructor
I have both a 996 and a Model3. I'll take the model3 for my daily drive any day over the 996, it's a way more comfy and less fatiguing driving experience and still a **** ton of fun. That I manage to mostly run it on free green solar power is just the icing on the cake. Sure the 996 for driving for drivings sake on a sweet twisty road, is the bomb. Hard to compare the two for reliability given the age disparity, but I have no build quality or reliability issues. Auto pilot and adaptive cruise is a real feature and I use it every day so I can be more relaxed and distracted. The only minor delivery defect was fixed at our house when I wasn't even home.
06-11-2019, 02:14 AM
#36
I have both a 996 and a Model3. I'll take the model3 for my daily drive any day over the 996, it's a way more comfy and less fatiguing driving experience and still a **** ton of fun. That I manage to mostly run it on free green solar power is just the icing on the cake. Sure the 996 for driving for drivings sake on a sweet twisty road, is the bomb. Hard to compare the two for reliability given the age disparity, but I have no build quality or reliability issues. Auto pilot and adaptive cruise is a real feature and I use it every day so I can be more relaxed and distracted. The only minor delivery defect was fixed at our house when I wasn't even home.
06-11-2019, 02:38 AM
#37
Instructor
Condensation inside one of the rear light covers, seems like it was a relatively common delivery defect at that time from forums...so I guess like the 996 there is a high correlation in defect types at known milages :-)
I try to be objective about the Tesla, many people are interested in the ownership experience, and there are way too many polarized people on both extreme sides of the fence. I suspect this will not turn out to be a Toyota like ownership experience, there's so much quickly developed tech in this car that there has to be some number of lifetime defects/failures in a statistically significant number of cars, but so far they seem to be dealing with it reasonably well, certainly with the high mileage leaders in the model S and X fleets, and there's good reason to believe most cars will well outlive their ICE equivalents with remarkably low lifetime running costs. I will say I never get tired of looking at pictures of survivable Tesla wrecks, the mechanical design is quite remarkable and its a significant factor in my choice.
I try to be objective about the Tesla, many people are interested in the ownership experience, and there are way too many polarized people on both extreme sides of the fence. I suspect this will not turn out to be a Toyota like ownership experience, there's so much quickly developed tech in this car that there has to be some number of lifetime defects/failures in a statistically significant number of cars, but so far they seem to be dealing with it reasonably well, certainly with the high mileage leaders in the model S and X fleets, and there's good reason to believe most cars will well outlive their ICE equivalents with remarkably low lifetime running costs. I will say I never get tired of looking at pictures of survivable Tesla wrecks, the mechanical design is quite remarkable and its a significant factor in my choice.
06-11-2019, 02:51 AM
#38
Condensation inside one of the rear light covers, seems like it was a relatively common delivery defect at that time from forums...so I guess like the 996 there is a high correlation in defect types at known milages :-)
I try to be objective about the Tesla, many people are interested in the ownership experience, and there are way too many polarized people on both extreme sides of the fence. I suspect this will not turn out to be a Toyota like ownership experience, there's so much quickly developed tech in this car that there has to be some number of lifetime defects/failures in a statistically significant number of cars, but so far they seem to be dealing with it reasonably well, certainly with the high mileage leaders in the model S and X fleets, and there's good reason to believe most cars will well outlive their ICE equivalents with remarkably low lifetime running costs. I will say I never get tired of looking at pictures of survivable Tesla wrecks, the mechanical design is quite remarkable and its a significant factor in my choice.
I try to be objective about the Tesla, many people are interested in the ownership experience, and there are way too many polarized people on both extreme sides of the fence. I suspect this will not turn out to be a Toyota like ownership experience, there's so much quickly developed tech in this car that there has to be some number of lifetime defects/failures in a statistically significant number of cars, but so far they seem to be dealing with it reasonably well, certainly with the high mileage leaders in the model S and X fleets, and there's good reason to believe most cars will well outlive their ICE equivalents with remarkably low lifetime running costs. I will say I never get tired of looking at pictures of survivable Tesla wrecks, the mechanical design is quite remarkable and its a significant factor in my choice.
06-11-2019, 07:42 AM
#39
Drifting
^ This. Externalization. People feel so great about their "green cars", they ignore all of the other parts of the system adversely impacted, potentially causing more harm than the original.
06-11-2019, 09:55 AM
#40
You nailed it! These are complicated machines unlike anything that has been introduced on the market in modern history. Give it 15-20 years, you think we'll been wrenching on the Teslas like we do the cars from the 50s, 60s, and 70s today? Guess I better start making friends with the computer science department.
06-11-2019, 12:10 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Yes they get to burn coal, but don’t tell that to them. And China doesn’t care about pit or strip mining for REMs either.
06-11-2019, 08:31 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Tesla made EVs sexy and desirable (to many, not so much to me - I like engine sound).
The big companies will make EVs profitable (eventually). Tesla shows no signs of this yet.
So Tesla will either die or be bought out. Bet on it. If you buy one as a three-year commuter car only, you’ll likely be okay. But it’s no substitute for any 911 variant.
The big companies will make EVs profitable (eventually). Tesla shows no signs of this yet.
So Tesla will either die or be bought out. Bet on it. If you buy one as a three-year commuter car only, you’ll likely be okay. But it’s no substitute for any 911 variant.
Last edited by RSflared72e; 06-12-2019 at 03:25 AM.
06-11-2019, 08:37 PM
#43
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As for swapping the 996 for any of the Tesla flavors, I don't see any kind of comparison. 911 is a throwback vehicle. Yes, even the water cooled 996 is a throwback. All the real early cars were rear engine(except the Noble, and Stanley which had big boilers). Tesla is marketed as a tech-forward orgasm of new, new, new. I'm kind of surprised it has regular doors.
As for EVs taking over, I don't see the big switch going on. EVs as a percent of world market share are still microscopic. If EVs were the future, we would be seeing big numbers in western Europe where gas is criminally expensive. EVs are only 0.4% of all cars in Europe, but they are growing, and will become a factor someday. What will drive EVs over the breaking point is a big run-up in gas cost in the US. If we got a 30% rise in gas prices in the US, there would be a flood of movement toward EVs(not hybrids), mostly in the urban crowd. Those people who are buing Prius gas cars, will switch over to PEV(plug in electric only). But - the 996 market is not going to be impacted if Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, and every other niche maker starts messing around in the hybrid world(not EVs, still hybrid with the gas engine doing 70-95% of the miles).
06-12-2019, 01:14 AM
#44
Team Owner
Yep, spot on.
06-12-2019, 02:16 AM
#45
Fiat 500e EV here (the one Sergio didn’t want anyone to buy). Not in the league of a Tesla, but pretty much a perfect vehicle for my short but grinding Silicon Valley commute. The instant, 100% predictable torque is great for darting around in traffic. I think it may beat the 911tt from 5-20. That it’s practically free to lease makes it a no brainer.