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New to me 996 with coolant intermix issue

 
Old 07-11-2019, 08:09 PM
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carlvs
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Default Measure once check it twice!

Jake your input is invaluable and I do appreciate it! I’m going to take a small break from working on the engine, waiting for parts etc. and throw in a small road trip as well. When I return I’ll have some more information to add to the mix and possibly measurements as well. I understand that bore taper and ovality are a factor in the success or not of this project. Have long term (50,000 miles or more) inspections been performed on Nickies? If so what is the result. Still round and true? Thanks to all for your insight knowledge.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:25 PM
  #92  
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Default For those that are curious...

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Alusil-Blocks

The Alusil process is not unique to Porsche but is used my many other manufacturers including Audi, VW, Mercedes just to name a few European brands and also quite a few of the Japanese makes as well. In some cases using a different name and their own proprietary process.
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Old 07-12-2019, 01:19 PM
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A GOOD dirt track machine shop that does Outlaw motors for their bread and
butter should be able to profile the bores for you for a reasonable cost..
They have it together, they build engines that make over 1000 HP normally aspirated at 11K rpms..
Assembling one that lasts is every bit as technically difficult/detail oriented as our fancy German engines..

Don't overlook the high end race bike shops either,, many of the issues in the 996 are mirrored
in the bike world.. My KTM 950 for a stock rebuild (2 cylinders) approaches about 1/2 the cost of a standard 996 rebuild.

I'm not saying hand either of them the rebuild, just saying some of their shop services may
be available to you if you dont have many alternatives. And its cheaper than some of the
tools required to do it well.

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Old 07-15-2019, 09:43 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by carlvs View Post
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-Alusil-Blocks

The Alusil process is not unique to Porsche but is used my many other manufacturers including Audi, VW, Mercedes just to name a few European brands and also quite a few of the Japanese makes as well. In some cases using a different name and their own proprietary process.
Porsche used Alusil cylinders with great success on the aircooled 911 with the 2.7 and 3.0, but it was also used on watercooled blocks in the 944 and 928, just for reference. Porsche was the first, and only company, to use the Lokasil process (there are actually three versions of it) and no auto maker has used it since, where Alusil is still used by most European auto makers. The Japanese have their own versions and do not use KS Alusil from what I have read in SAE whitepapers on the topic, but they are all similar in that they are hypereutectic with varying alloying additives in there to give specific properties to the blocks.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by carlvs View Post
Jake your input is invaluable and I do appreciate it! I’m going to take a small break from working on the engine, waiting for parts etc. and throw in a small road trip as well. When I return I’ll have some more information to add to the mix and possibly measurements as well. I understand that bore taper and ovality are a factor in the success or not of this project. Have long term (50,000 miles or more) inspections been performed on Nickies? If so what is the result. Still round and true? Thanks to all for your insight knowledge.
We hardly ever see any blocks back for re-dos or even refreshes. We had one with roughly 50k miles that came to us after having suffered failed injectors. The rings were shot, but all we did was clean up the block and deglaze it along with new rings. Bores had less than .002" ovality and taper and were within Porsche's wear limits. Having done thousands of blocks over the last 15 years or so, the fact that we don't have a large sample size to answer your question should be the answer you are looking for.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:11 AM
  #96  
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Default Back home...almost

Originally Posted by Scott at Team Harco View Post
Very nice.

Please expand on this concept of having the bores "honed" (or do you intend to do this?). My understanding is that this is a very specific process due to the silicon content in the matrix.
Part of the reason for taking a break was to try and meet up with a fellow from the Boston area who had a set of 996 case halves from a 2001 911 which had been serviced by Millennium Technologies for honing and Nikasil planting along with a set of new JE pistons. It had been a frustrating couple of weeks with intermittent communication from his end but ultimately we met half way between Hendersonville and Boston, in a Holiday Inn parking lot east of Harrisburg, PA. Yes it would have been easier to ship these cases but he also had a set of Porsche wheels that I wanted to purchase.


I think they’ll look great on my speed yellow cabriolet.
My dear, patient wife accompanied me on this journey and we added a few days to meander through Maryland and PA. Staying in old Inns and sampling some nice two lane roads along the way. The Cayenne diesel performed great and was able to swallow up all the bits and pieces, hidden behind the luggage, that I purchased!



So no honing, I’ll be selling the original cases 3.4 and pistons shortly. Anxious to get back home and continue the rebuild.

Last edited by carlvs; 07-17-2019 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:10 AM
  #97  
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Can you share the cost you've got into this? It's valuable information to those of us in the "roller" market.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:01 PM
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Default So...how much cabbage he wants know...

Originally Posted by 808Bill View Post
Can you share the cost you've got into this? It's valuable information to those of us in the "roller" market.
Bill I’d be happy too as long as no one shares this link with my wife..😉

I have started a spread sheet to keep track of the cost of its and pieces, machine shop service etc. Once I get some prices entered I’ll post them and keep it updated.
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by carlvs View Post
Bill I’d be happy too as long as no one shares this link with my wife..😉

I have started a spread sheet to keep track of the cost of its and pieces, machine shop service etc. Once I get some prices entered I’ll post them and keep it updated.
Trust me, I bought my roller without telling my wife until it arrived...It did not go over very well until I actually got a motor in and took her for a drive. I promise!!
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:14 PM
  #100  
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Default Cleaning cases etc.

Today I took a look at the “new” cases and spent a part of the day cleaning parts and ordering things like timing chains, guide rails and chain pads. The cylinder bores look great. These case halves have been honed and Nikasil plated by Millennium Technologies and I’ll be assembling them with a a set of New JE Pistons and rings.



I’m hoping that by the end of next week I’ll be able to assemble the crankcase halves. Any “gotchas” or pointers are appreciated!

Last edited by carlvs; Yesterday at 06:37 AM.
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:47 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by carlvs View Post
Part of the reason for taking a break was to try and meet up with a fellow from the Boston area who had a set of 996 case halves from a 2001 911 which had been serviced by Millennium Technologies for honing and Nikasil planting along with a set of new JE pistons. It had been a frustrating couple of weeks with intermittent communication from his end but ultimately we met half way between Hendersonville and Boston, in a Holiday Inn parking lot east of Harrisburg, PA. Yes it would have been easier to ship these cases but he also had a set of Porsche wheels that I wanted to purchase.


I think they’ll look great on my speed yellow cabriolet.
My dear, patient wife accompanied me on this journey and we added a few days to meander through Maryland and PA. Staying in old Inns and sampling some nice two lane roads along the way. The Cayenne diesel performed great and was able to swallow up all the bits and pieces, hidden behind the luggage, that I purchased!



So no honing, I’ll be selling the original cases 3.4 and pistons shortly. Anxious to get back home and continue the rebuild.

Great stuff!

I've been trying to identify the car in the first shot. I want to say; Supra. Could be way off - but it looks Japanese and also looks to have a conspicuous intercooler (or is that a clever A/C condenser?) It's not the SUV, is it?

Love the packaging. That's a lot like our trips.

The case-half looks real nice. Glad I tagged this thread a while ago.
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Old 07-20-2019, 06:24 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Scott at Team Harco View Post
Great stuff!

I've been trying to identify the car in the first shot. I want to say; Supra. Could be way off - but it looks Japanese and also looks to have a conspicuous intercooler (or is that a clever A/C condenser?) It's not the SUV, is it?

I never saw the black car in the tire photo. That was taken at the sellers shop in Mass.

Love the packaging. That's a lot like our trips.


The case-half looks real nice. Glad I tagged this thread a while ago.
My wife and others swore that we’d never get the wheels and engine crates to fit. I told them worst case scenario I’d have to put her on a Gray Hound... 😉
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:27 AM
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Carl, those black wheels would like really nice on a silver car. Just sayin’...
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:17 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by carlvs
The bore in my 996 are for the most part in very good condition. 60,000 mi. There is a very slight score on cylinder number five. I have read numerous threads where Lokasil manufactured cylinders have been lightly honed or deglazed, some aluminum removed exposing the harder silicon with good success....

I have read and do understand the various differences between Lokasil, Nikasil plating and Nickies. I even looked at (gasp;-) a steel sleeve solution. There is no doubt in my mind that the preferred method would be using the LN Engeneering or Hartech method. Had the bores been in terrible condition I would have been forced into choosing (May still) one of those solutions. Do take the Time and look at some of the posts regarding Honing Options for Hypereutectic Aluminum Cylinder Bores
https://www.sunnen.com/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=11

You are absolutely correct in that the results are only as good as the condition of the bore before beginning to try and do this. The cost difference between rings and honing ($500) and Nickies ($5000.00) plus is significant.

I will update as sonn as a decision has been made. In the meantime interested in what others have done.
Hartech also do a special honing solution to re round cylinders and fit a strengthening ring at the top of the cylinder , I had it done to my cylinders on my rebuild , it obviously depends on a measurement and qualification process with Hartech , weather your cylinders are within a certain range to be corrected but worth looking into ?
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Old Yesterday, 06:43 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Noz1974 View Post
Hartech also do a special honing solution to re round cylinders and fit a strengthening ring at the top of the cylinder , I had it done to my cylinders on my rebuild , it obviously depends on a measurement and qualification process with Hartech , weather your cylinders are within a certain range to be corrected but worth looking into ?
I looked at Hartech and wish that they had a US operation. I’d be hesitant to ship my cases to England... or Canada for that matter. The cases that ill be using have been serviced by Millennium Technologies and Nikasil plated. I could have sent my engine cases there but would have spent about $500 more than the ones I purchases from a person in Mass. that abandoned his 996 and sold it as a roller a couple of years ago and just decided to sell the cases and pistons along with a set of wheels that he’d been hanging on to...
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