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RMS needs to be done, what else to do while in there?

 
Old 05-13-2019, 02:59 PM
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fpena944
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Default RMS needs to be done, what else to do while in there?

Well at first my leak was a slight weeping, then a drip, now it's making my garage a bit messy so looks like we're going to have to go in and get the RMS replaced.

My father and I will be taking on the task. He's owned an auto shop for the last 26 years but sold it last year to retire and move closer to us. In any case we'll be doing this in a home garage but he has a stash of specialized tools and tons of experience with all types of vehicles including German cars.

I figure with the RMS I might as well replace the clutch and possibly flywheel. IMS was already done about 6 years ago but with 175k miles what else?

I'm thinking maybe the AOS as a precautionary measure? Replaced it too about 5 years ago. What about the chain guides? Aren't they plastic and require replacement?

Anything else you can all think of? I wanted to hold off on this until the car was showing signs of a complete engine rebuild but it's still pulling strong so aside from this oil leak it all looks good.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:12 PM
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I think you have the major ones planned already.

Your engine has 175K miles on it?

Are you planning to drop the whole engine out?

If your IMSB is 6 years old, I think it technically is due for another replacement. That decision is up to you though.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:14 PM
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I did this job a couple of years ago, I did not remove the engine though. RMS requires a tool so that you dont push it too far, some members here have a plastic tool to prevent this, maybe try to borrow it? Since you are taking the flywheel off, you will need new bolts as well. Some other items are clutch, flywheel, clutch fork, white lithium grease around fork.
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:14 PM
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How did you determine that the leak is coming from the RMS?
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Neto View Post
I did this job a couple of years ago, I did not remove the engine though. RMS requires a tool so that you dont push it too far, some members here have a plastic tool to prevent this, maybe try to borrow it? Since you are taking the flywheel off, you will need new bolts as well. Some other items are clutch, flywheel, clutch fork, white lithium grease around fork.
Member Chris(MA) sells a reasonably priced 3D printed tool to install the RMS at the right depth. Not sure if you "need" pressure plate bolts, but they're cheap, so I always replace them. Depending on age, and condition, the clutch actuating arm, guide tube, bolts, pivot, spring clip, bushing, etc, can be serviced (there is an upgraded part from a TSB, note that the updated parts don't fit the old style arm and pivot).

With that many years since it was serviced, I'd consider doing the IMSB again. If so, don't forget the various loctite products you need (flange sealant and green wicking).
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Old 05-13-2019, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dporto View Post
How did you determine that the leak is coming from the RMS?
+1 on this.
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:16 PM
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And O-rings in the power steering lines. AOS, do it!
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:44 PM
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Trans shaft seal
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Prelude Guy View Post
I think you have the major ones planned already.

Your engine has 175K miles on it?

Are you planning to drop the whole engine out?

If your IMSB is 6 years old, I think it technically is due for another replacement. That decision is up to you though.
My initial plan was not to do an engine out but to just drop the engine, similar to what I had to do when replacing the AOS. But if my father thinks it's easier than we might do the whole thing.

Good point on the IMSB. I'll make a list of pros and cons and figure out if I want to include that in the repairs.

Originally Posted by Neto View Post
I did this job a couple of years ago, I did not remove the engine though. RMS requires a tool so that you dont push it too far, some members here have a plastic tool to prevent this, maybe try to borrow it? Since you are taking the flywheel off, you will need new bolts as well. Some other items are clutch, flywheel, clutch fork, white lithium grease around fork.
I do remember seeing videos with the tool, I've also seen instructions on creating one using simple PVC piping. Thanks for the additional parts I might forget!

Originally Posted by dporto View Post
How did you determine that the leak is coming from the RMS?
Dealer and indy both came to the same conclusion. Might not be a 100% diagnosis but you truly never know until you start taking things apart. I do know that every time I clean it up the leak comes back from the same spot which is the where the engine and transmission meet. So we'll prepare as if it's the RMS but understand we could find out it's something else.

Even though I've had the car 10 years I still have the records from the previous owner. The RMS had to be replaced once before so the one in there is not the original.

Originally Posted by cds72911 View Post
Member Chris(MA) sells a reasonably priced 3D printed tool to install the RMS at the right depth. Not sure if you "need" pressure plate bolts, but they're cheap, so I always replace them. Depending on age, and condition, the clutch actuating arm, guide tube, bolts, pivot, spring clip, bushing, etc, can be serviced (there is an upgraded part from a TSB, note that the updated parts don't fit the old style arm and pivot).

With that many years since it was serviced, I'd consider doing the IMSB again. If so, don't forget the various loctite products you need (flange sealant and green wicking).
Thanks for bringing these up as I wasn't even aware of the TSB. We'll make sure to note these just in case!

So even with the LN bearing it's still recommended to replace regularly?

Originally Posted by 808Bill View Post
And O-rings in the power steering lines. AOS, do it!
Yeah I know the AOS but good point on the O-rings, thanks!

Originally Posted by Dryslick13 View Post
Trans shaft seal
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by fpena944 View Post
So even with the LN bearing it's still recommended to replace regularly?
That is correct. All of the LN retrofit bearings (excluding the plain bearing IMS Solution) have service intervals measured in both miles and years.

http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:23 AM
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"Dealer and indy both came to the same conclusion. Might not be a 100% diagnosis but you truly never know until you start taking things apart. I do know that every time I clean it up the leak comes back from the same spot which is the where the engine and transmission meet. So we'll prepare as if it's the RMS but understand we could find out it's something else.
Even though I've had the car 10 years I still have the records from the previous owner. The RMS had to be replaced once before so the one in there is not the original."


I've found that many service people kind of "slow walk" you into complacency or a sense of comfort by giving you the best case scenario when diagnosing mechanical problems. Then, once you've given them your car and they've taken it apart they start telling you the real skinny... In case you don't already know it, the IMS flange and the RMS leaks both look the same from the outside so it's equally likely that it's the imsb flange or both. I'm not trying to scare you or imply something bad is going on, just saying go in with your eyes open. Good luck
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cds72911 View Post
That is correct. All of the LN retrofit bearings (excluding the plain bearing IMS Solution) have service intervals measured in both miles and years.

http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/
Oh wow I guess I had one of the original 2011 runs. Mine is #2773 which means it's been longer than six years, time flies!

So it's closer to 8 years and probably 60k miles since the new bearing was installed.

Originally Posted by dporto View Post
"Dealer and indy both came to the same conclusion. Might not be a 100% diagnosis but you truly never know until you start taking things apart. I do know that every time I clean it up the leak comes back from the same spot which is the where the engine and transmission meet. So we'll prepare as if it's the RMS but understand we could find out it's something else.
Even though I've had the car 10 years I still have the records from the previous owner. The RMS had to be replaced once before so the one in there is not the original."


I've found that many service people kind of "slow walk" you into complacency or a sense of comfort by giving you the best case scenario when diagnosing mechanical problems. Then, once you've given them your car and they've taken it apart they start telling you the real skinny... In case you don't already know it, the IMS flange and the RMS leaks both look the same from the outside so it's equally likely that it's the imsb flange or both. I'm not trying to scare you or imply something bad is going on, just saying go in with your eyes open. Good luck
You're right so I know one we're in there who knows what we'll find. The problem is it if it comes to that point I'll need to assess whether to proceed with the current repair or not. Fact is if I'm going to spend $4k on repairing this engine, for example, I might as well look at going all the way and rebuilding or replacing. With 175k it's inevitable that the days are somewhat numbered - although we'll run a leakdown and compression test just to see but in all likelihood I need to start thinking about next steps too.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:12 PM
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So you are doing the work yourself... $4k is probably on the high end of what it'll wind up costing you - even with a bunch of "extras" and tools (water pump, LT thermostat, AOS, oil pump hex key and spring, cam chain tensioner pads, Coolant tank, Clutch, miscellaneous hardware and hoses, etc...). ** If you're interested in buying the LNE IMSB tools let me know via PM (I did the solution so I've got both sets - but not the "Faultless")... I'll make you a deal! FWIW - LNE will loan you the tools if you buy the bearing from them... Good Luck
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