Advice for Moving On from a 02 C4S Blown Engine
04-16-2019, 07:59 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Depending on how you value your time, it would be a good DIY project for someone. A used engine is a roll of the dice and if you are paying someone to do the work, you can easily be into the car more than what it's worth as a fix and flip.
6k is a bit steep with a grenaded engine (nothing left to rebuild). For comparison, I recently paid 6k for an 05 997 S with tons of upgrades and options with slightly higher mileage that was still running, but heavily scored, as a shop project. I've seen cars similar to this one sell for $3500-4500. Private party retail is currently $17-21k in good condition and high for excellent condition is $24k.
04-16-2019, 09:24 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Maybe you've got an inside track that I don't but when I was looking for a C4S (coupe + manual) earlier there were absolutely none in the low 20s. If I found one around in the mid 20s, it usually was well into 100k miles and/or needed some significant work on top.
04-16-2019, 10:53 PM
#34
A good C4s is high 20's easy even early 30's... Please show me a decent C4s anywhere under 25K nationwide. Those are going to be JUNK.
I think everyone can agree that a 996 is a super good deal at the present moment, so I would look at what would you be able to replace it with and what the cost is to fill that want.
My 996 Targa is not a car I could replace for 15K more than I bought for. So I think if the engine were to blow, Common sense says the numbers dont work. But they do when you realize the replacement cost off the whole car with something that does the same things it sort of does.
I think everyone can agree that a 996 is a super good deal at the present moment, so I would look at what would you be able to replace it with and what the cost is to fill that want.
My 996 Targa is not a car I could replace for 15K more than I bought for. So I think if the engine were to blow, Common sense says the numbers dont work. But they do when you realize the replacement cost off the whole car with something that does the same things it sort of does.
04-16-2019, 11:09 PM
#35
Drifting
Depends on your financial situation and comfort level. The lets just ballpark with a ~$10k replacement motor, ~$25k for a JR 4.0 upgrade, and let’s call it ~$5k roller value; this begs the question of whether you could get more car elsewhere for ~$40k. It is also dependent on having a spare $35k you are willing to throw at the project. The result will be amazing, no doubt. A 4.0 in a 996 with the internal upgrades will make a hell of a car. I think the original poster said replacing the engine isn’t an option though...
04-16-2019, 11:16 PM
#36
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Thanks for all the info everyone. I'm still sorting it through. Emotionally I'd love to keep the car, and given how much fun the car is I'm sure I can convince myself that $15k to have a 71k mile c4s is better than anything I'll get next. However, the numbers are hard to reconcile for me right now financially. As many of you have pointed out, used engines while cheaper aren't cheap, and it may work out or may not.
I purchased the car for $25k. That is playing a large role in my decision - lost investment to walk way from or pour more on top of this. I expect I'll pick a path later this week. I'll be sure to update this thread however it turns out.
I purchased the car for $25k. That is playing a large role in my decision - lost investment to walk way from or pour more on top of this. I expect I'll pick a path later this week. I'll be sure to update this thread however it turns out.
04-16-2019, 11:28 PM
#37
Heres how I see it... 25k and you have nothing, or 40k and you have a nice Porsche you can roll around in. IF its financially feasible for you I would take the latter. You can spend 15k on an engine, or a Accord, I would choose engine!
04-16-2019, 11:38 PM
#38
Drifting
In some ways the $25k is sunk cost and doesn’t really play into the decision. Regardless...
He might get $5k for the roller. End of the day, if he sells the roller, he’s $5k ahead of where he sits today. So he’s out a total of $20k on the whole enchilada, and gets to start over fresh with $5k in his pocket toward the next car.
If he puts a new engine in, he forgoes the $5k return, and is also out whatever he needs to spend to make it right (let’s use that $35k number for fun). Now he’s out $60k total, I think. And he’s still driving a car worth $25-30k.
Is that right, or am I messing it up?
He might get $5k for the roller. End of the day, if he sells the roller, he’s $5k ahead of where he sits today. So he’s out a total of $20k on the whole enchilada, and gets to start over fresh with $5k in his pocket toward the next car.
If he puts a new engine in, he forgoes the $5k return, and is also out whatever he needs to spend to make it right (let’s use that $35k number for fun). Now he’s out $60k total, I think. And he’s still driving a car worth $25-30k.
Is that right, or am I messing it up?
04-17-2019, 12:17 AM
#39
In some ways the $25k is sunk cost and doesn’t really play into the decision. Regardless...
He might get $5k for the roller. End of the day, if he sells the roller, he’s $5k ahead of where he sits today. So he’s out a total of $20k on the whole enchilada, and gets to start over fresh with $5k in his pocket toward the next car.
If he puts a new engine in, he forgoes the $5k return, and is also out whatever he needs to spend to make it right (let’s use that $35k number for fun). Now he’s out $60k total, I think. And he’s still driving a car worth $25-30k.
Is that right, or am I messing it up?
He might get $5k for the roller. End of the day, if he sells the roller, he’s $5k ahead of where he sits today. So he’s out a total of $20k on the whole enchilada, and gets to start over fresh with $5k in his pocket toward the next car.
If he puts a new engine in, he forgoes the $5k return, and is also out whatever he needs to spend to make it right (let’s use that $35k number for fun). Now he’s out $60k total, I think. And he’s still driving a car worth $25-30k.
Is that right, or am I messing it up?
DAS,....I might be interested in your car as a fathers/son DIY project. Most importantly however, I am sorry about your loss...hope you sort it out soon.
04-17-2019, 07:50 AM
#40
In some ways the $25k is sunk cost and doesn’t really play into the decision. Regardless...
He might get $5k for the roller. End of the day, if he sells the roller, he’s $5k ahead of where he sits today. So he’s out a total of $20k on the whole enchilada, and gets to start over fresh with $5k in his pocket toward the next car.
If he puts a new engine in, he forgoes the $5k return, and is also out whatever he needs to spend to make it right (let’s use that $35k number for fun). Now he’s out $60k total, I think. And he’s still driving a car worth $25-30k.
Is that right, or am I messing it up?
He might get $5k for the roller. End of the day, if he sells the roller, he’s $5k ahead of where he sits today. So he’s out a total of $20k on the whole enchilada, and gets to start over fresh with $5k in his pocket toward the next car.
If he puts a new engine in, he forgoes the $5k return, and is also out whatever he needs to spend to make it right (let’s use that $35k number for fun). Now he’s out $60k total, I think. And he’s still driving a car worth $25-30k.
Is that right, or am I messing it up?
He bought the car for 25k. Lets call it 15k to replace the motor that would put his total investment into the car 40k. He's driving a Porsche worth lets say 25k when its all said and done. He's upside down 15k.
Now lets say he decides to sell as a roller for 5k. As you mentioned now his loss is 20k. Irrelevant of his next move (he could buy a 1k beater, or a 100k Porsche) his loss is more this way. I know he's out of pocket more money in scenario one on the original car, but he's only upside down 15k vs selling as a roller and losing 20k. Does that not translate?
04-17-2019, 08:16 AM
#41
Drifting
I made that number up. The $35k came from $10k for a good used rebuildable engine and low $20k’s for a raby 3.8/4.0 rebuild, plus a couple of thousand for removal, reinstallation and incidentals.
In my experience ~$15k would get you a low mileage running used motor (installed) with the “while you’re in there” stuff (ims bearing, rms, aos, cluthch, flywheel, pressure plate, plugs, belt, hoses, filters, fluids). Might be fine, might not, “its a crapshoot” as Jake Raby says.
So, who knows, but the range of possibilites is in the low teens to mid thirties for getting it going again with varying levels of improvement and reliability updates.
Either scenario it is a ton of money to dump into an almost 20 year old car that is relatively easy to replace for less money than you’d spend to rebuild it.
If I were to “save” a 996 again myself, the shell was a keeper, and I had the money, it’d get the Raby engine. If it wasn’t a keeper, I’d replace it with another 996, a 997 or maybe a Cayman S.
In my experience ~$15k would get you a low mileage running used motor (installed) with the “while you’re in there” stuff (ims bearing, rms, aos, cluthch, flywheel, pressure plate, plugs, belt, hoses, filters, fluids). Might be fine, might not, “its a crapshoot” as Jake Raby says.
So, who knows, but the range of possibilites is in the low teens to mid thirties for getting it going again with varying levels of improvement and reliability updates.
Either scenario it is a ton of money to dump into an almost 20 year old car that is relatively easy to replace for less money than you’d spend to rebuild it.
If I were to “save” a 996 again myself, the shell was a keeper, and I had the money, it’d get the Raby engine. If it wasn’t a keeper, I’d replace it with another 996, a 997 or maybe a Cayman S.
04-17-2019, 08:19 AM
#42
04-17-2019, 10:47 AM
#43
Rennlist Member
Maybe I missed this in the conversation, but investing money in it now could be worthwhile if 996 prices go up. Every generation 911 has gone up in value - there's no reason to think this won't happen in 10 years or so.
04-17-2019, 11:11 AM
#44
Drifting
Haha. Good one.
04-17-2019, 12:02 PM
#45
Sad to see people in this situation. What I tell people all the time is how much money will it take to replace your car with something that you'll enjoy as much. It's often the person I'm speaking to will realize that spending more on the car than market value that in the end will be bulletproof and a keeper is worth the investment.
Depending on how you value your time, it would be a good DIY project for someone. A used engine is a roll of the dice and if you are paying someone to do the work, you can easily be into the car more than what it's worth as a fix and flip.
6k is a bit steep with a grenaded engine (nothing left to rebuild). For comparison, I recently paid 6k for an 05 997 S with tons of upgrades and options with slightly higher mileage that was still running, but heavily scored, as a shop project. I've seen cars similar to this one sell for $3500-4500. Private party retail is currently $17-21k in good condition and high for excellent condition is $24k.
Depending on how you value your time, it would be a good DIY project for someone. A used engine is a roll of the dice and if you are paying someone to do the work, you can easily be into the car more than what it's worth as a fix and flip.
6k is a bit steep with a grenaded engine (nothing left to rebuild). For comparison, I recently paid 6k for an 05 997 S with tons of upgrades and options with slightly higher mileage that was still running, but heavily scored, as a shop project. I've seen cars similar to this one sell for $3500-4500. Private party retail is currently $17-21k in good condition and high for excellent condition is $24k.
