Let's talk maximizing performance
02-04-2019, 08:35 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
I do however agree that removing the K&N Hot Air Intake® is a good idea.
02-04-2019, 11:51 PM
#18
Race Car
Mods of note (not to everyone's taste but here is some of whats available):
Engine:
- Exhaust systems - mufflers / cats in various designs x-pipe etc / headers: I'd ditch the bypass and get 200CEL cats + sports mufflers + headers if the budget allows
- IPD plenum / Ben's plenum - Have an IPD would recommend I know others would not
- IPD plenum + GT3 TB - Yet to try this, others have recommended it
- 997 3.8 Carrera S or maybe the EVOMS intakes are the only ones i'd even think about + 996 - remove your K&N intake - its junk
- Under drive pulley - Have one don't have a baseline but it must do something
- Light weight flywheel + sprung clutch disk (I would not recommend it - but its available) - had one removed it, IMO don't do it
- Supercharger (definitely would not recommended)
- ECU tune - Yes but Dyno only not offsite/mail order flash
- FSI 3.8 / 4.0 bump up - If you've got the cash for a 4.0 DO IT!
- Motorsport AOS - no experience
- Accusump - no experience
- Deep sump - various brands - no experience
Suspension/driving:
- Adjustable suspension upgrades (Bilstein / Koni / KW / Ohlins) - Im on M030 - will do adjustable one day
- Poly bushes - No experience
- RS/semi solid engine mounts - yes yes yes
- Shifter mechanism: 997 or if the budget allows couldn't recommend Numeric racing enough
- Numeric racing cables - No experience
- LSD - have one - no baseline
- Trans mount inserts - no experience - two brands I know of FunctionFirst / Powerflex - Yellow seem to be the ones most are happy with
Non performance/longevity mods:
- LN spin on filter or LN IMS Solution
- LN magnetic drain plug
But really - as I've read many times on here before - driving lessons will make you go faster...
Engine:
- Exhaust systems - mufflers / cats in various designs x-pipe etc / headers: I'd ditch the bypass and get 200CEL cats + sports mufflers + headers if the budget allows
- IPD plenum / Ben's plenum - Have an IPD would recommend I know others would not
- IPD plenum + GT3 TB - Yet to try this, others have recommended it
- 997 3.8 Carrera S or maybe the EVOMS intakes are the only ones i'd even think about + 996 - remove your K&N intake - its junk
- Under drive pulley - Have one don't have a baseline but it must do something
- Light weight flywheel + sprung clutch disk (I would not recommend it - but its available) - had one removed it, IMO don't do it
- Supercharger (definitely would not recommended)
- ECU tune - Yes but Dyno only not offsite/mail order flash
- FSI 3.8 / 4.0 bump up - If you've got the cash for a 4.0 DO IT!
- Motorsport AOS - no experience
- Accusump - no experience
- Deep sump - various brands - no experience
Suspension/driving:
- Adjustable suspension upgrades (Bilstein / Koni / KW / Ohlins) - Im on M030 - will do adjustable one day
- Poly bushes - No experience
- RS/semi solid engine mounts - yes yes yes
- Shifter mechanism: 997 or if the budget allows couldn't recommend Numeric racing enough
- Numeric racing cables - No experience
- LSD - have one - no baseline
- Trans mount inserts - no experience - two brands I know of FunctionFirst / Powerflex - Yellow seem to be the ones most are happy with
Non performance/longevity mods:
- LN spin on filter or LN IMS Solution
- LN magnetic drain plug
But really - as I've read many times on here before - driving lessons will make you go faster...
Last edited by dan_189; 02-05-2019 at 04:07 PM.
02-05-2019, 12:14 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Think of someone you really dislike and you don’t care if their engine blows up. I wouldn’t put a K&N air filter on their engine. They are that bad. Overpriced, overhyped, terrible air filters that are a chore to clean. OEMs ditched oil bath filters before I was born, and I’m approaching fifty. K&N has threatened to sue me more than once. I’ve dared them more than once.
02-05-2019, 01:10 AM
#20
No surprise there! lol
Again, can someone explain how this intake sucks in more hot air than the stock box?
This is the kind of stuff im looking for. thanks!
Mods of note (not to everyone's taste but here is some of whats available):
Engine:
- Exhaust systems - mufflers / cats in various designs x-pipe etc / headers: I'd ditch the bypass and get 200CEL cats + sports mufflers + headers if the budget allows
- IPD plenum / Ben's plenum - Have an IPD would recommend I know others would not
- IPD plenum + GT3 TB - Yet to try this, others have recommended it
- 997 3.8 Carrera S or maybe the EVOMS intakes are the only ones i'd even think about + 996 - remove your K&N intake - its junk
- Under drive pulley - Have one don't have a baseline but it must do something
- Light weight flywheel + sprung clutch disk (I would not recommend it - but its available) - had one removed it, IMO don't do it
- Supercharger (definitely would not recommended)
- ECU tune - Yes but Dyno only not offsite/mail order flash
- FSI 3.8 / 4.0 bump up - If you've got the cash for a 4.0 DO IT!
- Motorsport AOS - no experience
- Accusump - no experience
- Deep sump - various brands - no experience
Suspension/driving:
- Adjustable suspension upgrades (Bilstein / Koni / KW / Ohlins) - Im on M030 - will do adjustable one day
- Poly bushes - No experience
- RS/semi solid engine mounts - yes yes yes
- Shifter mechanism: 997 or if the budget allows couldn't recommend Numeric racing enough
- Numeric racing cables - No experience
- Trans mount inserts - no experience - two brands I know of FunctionFirst / Powerflex - Yellow seem to be the ones most are happy with
Non performance/longevity mods:
- LN spin on filter or LN IMS Solution
- LN magnetic drain plug
But really - as I've read many times on here before - driving lessons will make you go faster...
Engine:
- Exhaust systems - mufflers / cats in various designs x-pipe etc / headers: I'd ditch the bypass and get 200CEL cats + sports mufflers + headers if the budget allows
- IPD plenum / Ben's plenum - Have an IPD would recommend I know others would not
- IPD plenum + GT3 TB - Yet to try this, others have recommended it
- 997 3.8 Carrera S or maybe the EVOMS intakes are the only ones i'd even think about + 996 - remove your K&N intake - its junk
- Under drive pulley - Have one don't have a baseline but it must do something
- Light weight flywheel + sprung clutch disk (I would not recommend it - but its available) - had one removed it, IMO don't do it
- Supercharger (definitely would not recommended)
- ECU tune - Yes but Dyno only not offsite/mail order flash
- FSI 3.8 / 4.0 bump up - If you've got the cash for a 4.0 DO IT!
- Motorsport AOS - no experience
- Accusump - no experience
- Deep sump - various brands - no experience
Suspension/driving:
- Adjustable suspension upgrades (Bilstein / Koni / KW / Ohlins) - Im on M030 - will do adjustable one day
- Poly bushes - No experience
- RS/semi solid engine mounts - yes yes yes
- Shifter mechanism: 997 or if the budget allows couldn't recommend Numeric racing enough
- Numeric racing cables - No experience
- Trans mount inserts - no experience - two brands I know of FunctionFirst / Powerflex - Yellow seem to be the ones most are happy with
Non performance/longevity mods:
- LN spin on filter or LN IMS Solution
- LN magnetic drain plug
But really - as I've read many times on here before - driving lessons will make you go faster...
02-05-2019, 01:18 AM
#21
Race Car
Colder air is denser - more air more fuel bigger bang transversely hotter air - less dense - smaller bang. Same reason turbo engines use intercoolers to cool down air - to make it more dense.
Hope that explanation makes sense - either way IMO ditch the K&N I had a friend that did and said he got power back that he'd lost.
If you need any further detail on the mods I made mention of having experience with - HMU.
02-05-2019, 01:45 AM
#22
Yes, the engine creates a fair bit of heat and due to it being in the rear doesn't get a huge amount of airflow to cool it down. As such the engine bay gets hot, the original box is of a closed design and air is fed into the snorkel into the box, across the filter and then into the engine - good. The K&N filter is essentially 'open' or unprotected from heat and allows the engine to suck in hot air from the engine bay - bad
Colder air is denser - more air more fuel bigger bang transversely hotter air - less dense - smaller bang. Same reason turbo engines use intercoolers to cool down air - to make it more dense.
Hope that explanation makes sense - either way IMO ditch the K&N I had a friend that did and said he got power back that he'd lost.
If you need any further detail on the mods I made mention of having experience with - HMU.
Colder air is denser - more air more fuel bigger bang transversely hotter air - less dense - smaller bang. Same reason turbo engines use intercoolers to cool down air - to make it more dense.
Hope that explanation makes sense - either way IMO ditch the K&N I had a friend that did and said he got power back that he'd lost.
If you need any further detail on the mods I made mention of having experience with - HMU.
bottom of the factory box, full of holes
still fed by the snorkel, completely blocked from engine, filthy though it may be
either way, enough people seem anti K&N that its worth considering getting rid of, I just want to understand why I'm doing it and not just bc a bunch of people say so, you know?
02-05-2019, 01:51 AM
#23
Race Car
Yes fed by the snorkel but the K&N allows the opportunity for the air coming in to mix with hot air because its open unlike the standard box. I guess if you completely enclosed the pod then that would work better. Check out the EVOMS box it creates a seal for the pod filter. Thats ideal:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...6-dash-410.jpg
Also those holes are for water drainage the wouldnt allow much air to be drawn through them IMO.
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...6-dash-410.jpg
Also those holes are for water drainage the wouldnt allow much air to be drawn through them IMO.
02-05-2019, 02:36 AM
#24
Race Director
I think Porsche has already given us 90% of the performance in stock form. Additional mods get exponentially expensive on very small performance increase. First and foremost are the brake mods. For regular street driving the stock pads are great because when you need it, you get the initial bite right away even when it is cold and wet. On the track, after repeated heating, the pads will overheat, not fluid boiling which is a different cause, and the pads become ineffective.
I might get flamed by this suggestion. Spending on driver education to me is the most effective investment. Secondly is track time. Nothing reward you more than getting your butt meter calibrated to know exactly where the limit is. You will be surprised how capable the car is after getting to know how it drives and behaves.
I might get flamed by this suggestion. Spending on driver education to me is the most effective investment. Secondly is track time. Nothing reward you more than getting your butt meter calibrated to know exactly where the limit is. You will be surprised how capable the car is after getting to know how it drives and behaves.
You're probably losing low end torque by pairing the k&n intake and muffler bypass. From my experience the muffler bypass saves about 60lbs, but you lose low end torque and gain in the higher rev range, so it's an okay mod. The K&N intake I believe sucks in too much hot air and the oil can mess up the MAF. I would recommend going back to stock intake or doing the helmholtz delete if you want the louder intake sound.
Shedding weight is probably the best thing you can do, without spending tons of money on engine work or FI.
Shedding weight is probably the best thing you can do, without spending tons of money on engine work or FI.
I might add, a crapshoot with pretty good overall odds, but still a crapshoot.
02-05-2019, 02:40 AM
#25
Race Car
02-05-2019, 08:02 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
I've never really understood how I could be sucking in more hot air with this intake vs stock, My stock box has holes underneath it where the K&N has a solid heat shield. Seems like the holes in the stock box would expose it to way more hot air?
Im OK with a little low end loss as Im not really out to drag race anybody and I dont mind keeping it up in the revs. Is there any point (or is it even possible) to tune the ECU?
Do Pulleys and whatnot actually free up any power?
Im OK with a little low end loss as Im not really out to drag race anybody and I dont mind keeping it up in the revs. Is there any point (or is it even possible) to tune the ECU?
Do Pulleys and whatnot actually free up any power?
Exhaust: Stock manifolds (ported), Catless x-pipes, B&B mufflers (These parts sounds great to me, AND a lot of mass off the rear of the car)
Intake: BMC filter, IPD plenum, Fabspeed smooth intake, ECU tune (specifically for this purpose)
Other: FF transmission mounts (quicker transfer)
Others parts on deck: FF motor mounts, FF bushings in a 997 shifter
Regrets: Getting the remote ECU tune. This really should be done on a Dyno with an expert. I think it feels great, but for the $$$, I have no results to show..
Please share the results of the parts you choose...
Other things considered:
*Underdrive pulley: Seems like a good idea, but most of what I have read was that it works best with a LWFW (which is not planned)
02-05-2019, 11:06 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
With a K&N it’s not about air temperatures but dirt. The ECU measures inlet air temp and makes adjustments. If you are worried about IAT, datalog it.
The oil in K&N air filters is known to ruin mass air sensors. You can search TSBs on the NHTSA database in this from almost every OEM.
Lastly, air filtration is a simple mechanical process of catching airborne particulate. Any particular media has a given ability to filter. If you want more airflow pick a higher flow media that stops less dirt or increase the air filter area. It’s that simple. So K&N air filters definitely have much less area than oem filters.... you figure out the rest. I did some experiments long ago they didn’t like.
Also when evaluating any car mod remember slick 50! Read the case the FTC filed against them too. I suggested K&N read it too. Most aftermarket stuff is intended to separate you from your money and make someone else richer and that’s it. The OEM engineers are fully capable of picking a big enough but oh so boring paper / fiber filter with tons of surface area to support the airflow for a given horsepower.
So if you like dirt and dirt related enginewear and less money in your pocket.... go for it. IATs don’t care.
The oil in K&N air filters is known to ruin mass air sensors. You can search TSBs on the NHTSA database in this from almost every OEM.
Lastly, air filtration is a simple mechanical process of catching airborne particulate. Any particular media has a given ability to filter. If you want more airflow pick a higher flow media that stops less dirt or increase the air filter area. It’s that simple. So K&N air filters definitely have much less area than oem filters.... you figure out the rest. I did some experiments long ago they didn’t like.
Also when evaluating any car mod remember slick 50! Read the case the FTC filed against them too. I suggested K&N read it too. Most aftermarket stuff is intended to separate you from your money and make someone else richer and that’s it. The OEM engineers are fully capable of picking a big enough but oh so boring paper / fiber filter with tons of surface area to support the airflow for a given horsepower.
So if you like dirt and dirt related enginewear and less money in your pocket.... go for it. IATs don’t care.
02-05-2019, 11:31 AM
#29
With a K&N it’s not about air temperatures but dirt. The ECU measures inlet air temp and makes adjustments. If you are worried about IAT, datalog it.
The oil in K&N air filters is known to ruin mass air sensors. You can search TSBs on the NHTSA database in this from almost every OEM.
Lastly, air filtration is a simple mechanical process of catching airborne particulate. Any particular media has a given ability to filter. If you want more airflow pick a higher flow media that stops less dirt or increase the air filter area. It’s that simple. So K&N air filters definitely have much less area than oem filters.... you figure out the rest. I did some experiments long ago they didn’t like.
Also when evaluating any car mod remember slick 50! Read the case the FTC filed against them too. I suggested K&N read it too. Most aftermarket stuff is intended to separate you from your money and make someone else richer and that’s it. The OEM engineers are fully capable of picking a big enough but oh so boring paper / fiber filter with tons of surface area to support the airflow for a given horsepower.
So if you like dirt and dirt related enginewear and less money in your pocket.... go for it. IATs don’t care.
The oil in K&N air filters is known to ruin mass air sensors. You can search TSBs on the NHTSA database in this from almost every OEM.
Lastly, air filtration is a simple mechanical process of catching airborne particulate. Any particular media has a given ability to filter. If you want more airflow pick a higher flow media that stops less dirt or increase the air filter area. It’s that simple. So K&N air filters definitely have much less area than oem filters.... you figure out the rest. I did some experiments long ago they didn’t like.
Also when evaluating any car mod remember slick 50! Read the case the FTC filed against them too. I suggested K&N read it too. Most aftermarket stuff is intended to separate you from your money and make someone else richer and that’s it. The OEM engineers are fully capable of picking a big enough but oh so boring paper / fiber filter with tons of surface area to support the airflow for a given horsepower.
So if you like dirt and dirt related enginewear and less money in your pocket.... go for it. IATs don’t care.
02-05-2019, 12:11 PM
#30
After reading a bunch of other threads I feel like All this is a waste of money. I think Ill go back to a stock intake box with a BMC filter and just continue the weight loss diet and suspension work. Then when it's as light and tight as possible I can fine tune