IMS cost?
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andykim70 (09-23-2019)
01-04-2019, 03:32 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
At a dealer, that's not a bad price (for the IMS solution). I did essentially the same thing as this - myself - and spent almost $5k. Here's a breakdown of my costs. Granted, there are a few extra things in there - and I had to buy some tools that I didn't have. LN now offers the toolkit as a rental, so that will help drop the price slightly too.
Mandatory (in my opinion):
1,860.45 IMS Solution (after tax and shipping)
525 LN Engineering IMS Pro Toolkit and Supplemental
100 New synthetic oil
Other costs (if you don't have them already):
130 Harbor Freight Transmission Jack and 4 jack stands
25 HF Creeper (it sucked and I stopped using it half way through the project as the wheels didn't roll well)
100 Misc tools (various extensions, hex bits, torx bits, swivel heads, socket adapters)
25 3/8 drive air ratchet
30 Craftsman torque wrench (you can rent these free at AutoZone)
30 Spline grease, sealant, gasket maker, loc-tite, etc
17 c-clip pliers
Other parts (optional depending on condition)
550 Clutch, pressure plate and release bearing
850 Dual mass flywheel
160 Clutch slave cylinder
27 Brake fluid
50 Motive pressure brake bleeder
In addition, I replaced one output shaft seal in the transaxle and both output shaft seals on the front differential and replaced the fluid in both:
125 Seals
14 Seal puller
200 5 quarts of Porsche transmission fluid
30 Drain plugs and crush washers
-----------------------------
4,848.45
Mandatory (in my opinion):
1,860.45 IMS Solution (after tax and shipping)
525 LN Engineering IMS Pro Toolkit and Supplemental
100 New synthetic oil
Other costs (if you don't have them already):
130 Harbor Freight Transmission Jack and 4 jack stands
25 HF Creeper (it sucked and I stopped using it half way through the project as the wheels didn't roll well)
100 Misc tools (various extensions, hex bits, torx bits, swivel heads, socket adapters)
25 3/8 drive air ratchet
30 Craftsman torque wrench (you can rent these free at AutoZone)
30 Spline grease, sealant, gasket maker, loc-tite, etc
17 c-clip pliers
Other parts (optional depending on condition)
550 Clutch, pressure plate and release bearing
850 Dual mass flywheel
160 Clutch slave cylinder
27 Brake fluid
50 Motive pressure brake bleeder
In addition, I replaced one output shaft seal in the transaxle and both output shaft seals on the front differential and replaced the fluid in both:
125 Seals
14 Seal puller
200 5 quarts of Porsche transmission fluid
30 Drain plugs and crush washers
-----------------------------
4,848.45
01-04-2019, 05:59 PM
#18
Here is the invoice from the PO of my car. Looks like he got a "winter discount" of $470 so he only paid $2800. As you can see he got the clutch replaced as well. This is a local indy with excellent reviews and reputation in his area so I would say $3000-$4000 would be reasonable if you are doing the clutch at the same time. If not it could be a few hundred cheaper. I think you may have to open the PDF, I didn't upload as a photo. Sorry.
01-05-2019, 01:47 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
I have to get a bunch of stuff done and I got a vague quote from the shop that did the PPI but I see prices all over the place. IMS, AOS, RMS, Clutch and whatever odds and ends go along with that around $5k.
01-05-2019, 02:09 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I have the kit if you want to buy it for $400, buy the other parts, seals, clutch etc yourself and find a shop that will do it for the labor and save a lot of money.
John
John
01-05-2019, 04:01 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
The dealer quote is absurd. Honestly, I don't even think the dealer is a good place to service the 996 (independent of cost). When models are older, typical dealers (in my opinion and experience) don't respect older cars and they know a lot less about the idiosyncrasies related to older models than specialized independents who have kept pace the whole time about every issue related to those models as they age.
About 10 years ago I took my '87 Carrera 3.2 to a very well-known dealer for service, thinking I was doing the "right thing" to use a dealer even though I expected the service to cost a lot more. It turned out that the dealer did not know what they were doing. At all. I don't doubt that their mechanics were first-rate for the latest models, but they simply did not know what they were doing on an older car. They screwed up the repair and then had to send it out to an independent to get it fixed.
There may be some dealers that are an exception, but as a general rule, I think qualified Porsche independents are much more skilled in servicing older models (especially the 996 with all its idiosyncrasies).
About 10 years ago I took my '87 Carrera 3.2 to a very well-known dealer for service, thinking I was doing the "right thing" to use a dealer even though I expected the service to cost a lot more. It turned out that the dealer did not know what they were doing. At all. I don't doubt that their mechanics were first-rate for the latest models, but they simply did not know what they were doing on an older car. They screwed up the repair and then had to send it out to an independent to get it fixed.
There may be some dealers that are an exception, but as a general rule, I think qualified Porsche independents are much more skilled in servicing older models (especially the 996 with all its idiosyncrasies).
01-05-2019, 07:50 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
I agree 100% and I think it applies to BMW dealers and others too. I wouldn't dream of taking my '88 M5 to a dealer for anything.
08-28-2021, 11:18 AM
#26
08-28-2021, 12:41 PM
#27
Racer
You can buy the highest quality IMS bearing (SKF,NSK etc) for around 20-40 dollars depending on the model you need. Pay much more and you are just being ripped off. Service the clutch, flywheel and RMS...and put your new IMS bearing on a shelf. The IMS does not need servicing unless it's failing, which the mechanic can check when doing the RMS. Same as checking a wheel bearing basically. Read the IMS bearing thread on this forum (it's a sticky)....page after page after page of perfect bearings being pulled, the IMS bearing is not a big issue. Search this forum: You will find much more cases where the aftermarket bearing failed and took the engine out than original bearings failing. You will also find threads about failed replacements turning perfect engines in to a big head ache. I can't even remember when was the last time someone wrote about an original bearing failure (note: confirmed IMS bearing failure).The path of less risk is to check it and leave alone if ok.
Put your IMS bearing money towards other maintenance and repairs instead. It's better used there to keep your engine healthy.
Put your IMS bearing money towards other maintenance and repairs instead. It's better used there to keep your engine healthy.
08-28-2021, 01:38 PM
#28
You can buy the highest quality IMS bearing (SKF,NSK etc) for around 20-40 dollars depending on the model you need. Pay much more and you are just being ripped off. Service the clutch, flywheel and RMS...and put your new IMS bearing on a shelf. The IMS does not need servicing unless it's failing, which the mechanic can check when doing the RMS. Same as checking a wheel bearing basically. Read the IMS bearing thread on this forum (it's a sticky)....page after page after page of perfect bearings being pulled, the IMS bearing is not a big issue. Search this forum: You will find much more cases where the aftermarket bearing failed and took the engine out than original bearings failing. You will also find threads about failed replacements turning perfect engines in to a big head ache. I can't even remember when was the last time someone wrote about an original bearing failure (note: confirmed IMS bearing failure).The path of less risk is to check it and leave alone if ok.
Put your IMS bearing money towards other maintenance and repairs instead. It's better used there to keep your engine healthy.
Put your IMS bearing money towards other maintenance and repairs instead. It's better used there to keep your engine healthy.
08-28-2021, 01:40 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Do The Math
Folks, think about this for a second. The "sticky" thread posted by RL Admin called "IMS Bearing..."
...takes a poll of 996 forum readers of which 1423 have participated with a vote on whether you have had IMS failure. As best I can tell, you can't take the poll twice. What the poll shows is that 128/1423 or 9% have had a IMS problem, and 1295/1423 or 91% have not. That 9 out of every 100 cars.
But when the problem does occur, your engine is toast.
Now think about this, our cars are ~ 20 years old and continue to get older every day, month, year. Do you think the number of IMS failures will stay static at 9.1% going forward, increase or decrease as our IMS gets older? Common sense tells you that it will increase.
We aren't talking about a turn signal that hasn't failed yet, which if it does, has no consequence on destroying an engine. We are talking a part that if it does fail, with certainty it will grenade the engine. There is no "Oh I think my Ims bearing just went, no worries, I'll drive it to the shop next week and get it fixed". Your engine is finished if it happens.
Why play Russian roulette with your engine? I don't get it.
As a side note, I keep contacting Rennlist Administration to set up the same post for a Bore Scoring Poll. But for some reason I am not hearing back from them. Maybe I am contacting the wrong folks or there is already a poll that is hidden. If so, let's get it added as a RL Admin sticky so we can start to quantify Bore Scoring like you have with IMS failure. PLEASE!!!
...takes a poll of 996 forum readers of which 1423 have participated with a vote on whether you have had IMS failure. As best I can tell, you can't take the poll twice. What the poll shows is that 128/1423 or 9% have had a IMS problem, and 1295/1423 or 91% have not. That 9 out of every 100 cars.
But when the problem does occur, your engine is toast.
Now think about this, our cars are ~ 20 years old and continue to get older every day, month, year. Do you think the number of IMS failures will stay static at 9.1% going forward, increase or decrease as our IMS gets older? Common sense tells you that it will increase.
We aren't talking about a turn signal that hasn't failed yet, which if it does, has no consequence on destroying an engine. We are talking a part that if it does fail, with certainty it will grenade the engine. There is no "Oh I think my Ims bearing just went, no worries, I'll drive it to the shop next week and get it fixed". Your engine is finished if it happens.
Why play Russian roulette with your engine? I don't get it.
As a side note, I keep contacting Rennlist Administration to set up the same post for a Bore Scoring Poll. But for some reason I am not hearing back from them. Maybe I am contacting the wrong folks or there is already a poll that is hidden. If so, let's get it added as a RL Admin sticky so we can start to quantify Bore Scoring like you have with IMS failure. PLEASE!!!
08-29-2021, 05:24 AM
#30
Racer
Folks, think about this for a second. The "sticky" thread posted by RL Admin called "IMS Bearing..."
...takes a poll of 996 forum readers of which 1423 have participated with a vote on whether you have had IMS failure. As best I can tell, you can't take the poll twice. What the poll shows is that 128/1423 or 9% have had a IMS problem, and 1295/1423 or 91% have not. That 9 out of every 100 cars.
But when the problem does occur, your engine is toast.
Now think about this, our cars are ~ 20 years old and continue to get older every day, month, year. Do you think the number of IMS failures will stay static at 9.1% going forward, increase or decrease as our IMS gets older? Common sense tells you that it will increase.
We aren't talking about a turn signal that hasn't failed yet, which if it does, has no consequence on destroying an engine. We are talking a part that if it does fail, with certainty it will grenade the engine. There is no "Oh I think my Ims bearing just went, no worries, I'll drive it to the shop next week and get it fixed". Your engine is finished if it happens.
Why play Russian roulette with your engine? I don't get it.
As a side note, I keep contacting Rennlist Administration to set up the same post for a Bore Scoring Poll. But for some reason I am not hearing back from them. Maybe I am contacting the wrong folks or there is already a poll that is hidden. If so, let's get it added as a RL Admin sticky so we can start to quantify Bore Scoring like you have with IMS failure. PLEASE!!!
...takes a poll of 996 forum readers of which 1423 have participated with a vote on whether you have had IMS failure. As best I can tell, you can't take the poll twice. What the poll shows is that 128/1423 or 9% have had a IMS problem, and 1295/1423 or 91% have not. That 9 out of every 100 cars.
But when the problem does occur, your engine is toast.
Now think about this, our cars are ~ 20 years old and continue to get older every day, month, year. Do you think the number of IMS failures will stay static at 9.1% going forward, increase or decrease as our IMS gets older? Common sense tells you that it will increase.
We aren't talking about a turn signal that hasn't failed yet, which if it does, has no consequence on destroying an engine. We are talking a part that if it does fail, with certainty it will grenade the engine. There is no "Oh I think my Ims bearing just went, no worries, I'll drive it to the shop next week and get it fixed". Your engine is finished if it happens.
Why play Russian roulette with your engine? I don't get it.
As a side note, I keep contacting Rennlist Administration to set up the same post for a Bore Scoring Poll. But for some reason I am not hearing back from them. Maybe I am contacting the wrong folks or there is already a poll that is hidden. If so, let's get it added as a RL Admin sticky so we can start to quantify Bore Scoring like you have with IMS failure. PLEASE!!!
The bearings will have less and less failure because they don't fail because of wear-and-tear. Even the so-called weak 6204 is over kill for the application, with an estimated life in the area of a million miles. Please read my reverse engineering in the IMS thread.
As you can see from the poll, 9% have had failures...that is WAY higher than the total average(which is just little over 1%). Most people find this forum beacuse they had or feared they had a failure. Some of the failure in the thread is also not proper IMS failures.
If you look at it statistically, and logically, the best thing is to not touch it. If you are full of fear, logic goes out the window and you pay multiple thousands of dollars for something that claims to solve the 'issues'. I mean, you are actually more likely to have a car crash than IMS bearing failure. I doubt you feel like Russian roulett every time you take the car out for a drive?
Last edited by Nick_L; 08-29-2021 at 05:25 AM.