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Here's the results from the alignment the other day. The left front is .1 out of camber. Should I take it back and see if they can get it right? Or am I just being OCD?
03 C2 996 w/18" wheels, daily driver, no track use.
Don't worry about .1 degree of extra negative camber, it won't amount to a hill of beans in tire wear or handling. If anything it may have a very, very slight drift to the right since there isn't any cross caster to cancel out the .4 cross camber, but in the real world it is probably negligible at best.
That’s pretty sloppy, in my opinion. I tell the service advisor up front that I’m picky so the tech knows not to just get the lines in the green and call it done, which is what most techs I’ve seen doing alignments do. I just took mine to Porsche Jacksonville for an alignment because I installed lowering springs and the final specs make it obvious that the tech was actually trying to make it RIGHT, not just good enough. I wouldn’t have settled for any less, but I was so happy when I didn’t have to be the complaining ******* customer because they just did it right the first time. He didn’t touch front camber because of an issue with the top mount on the driver’s side (one of the studs stripped with the nut on it: it never reached the specified torque of 24ft-lbs and just kept spinning. New one is on order), but I’ll be taking it back in once I replace it and he’ll adjust the front camber to .7-.8°, per my request.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable in your dissatisfaction with that alignment, not even considering the cross camber on the front. But it is typically a good idea to set proper expectations up before the work is done.
Last edited by JoeyCapranica; 01-03-2019 at 01:34 PM.
I agree with MattBurns; it's such a minimal difference you will not notice anything in daily driving. as a frame of reference many guys look for -2 to -3 degrees of camber for track use.
some would consider it sloppy work; maybe so; it doesn't look like they even touched the camber; changed only the toe. But I wouldn't go to the hassle of taking the car back for another alignment.
Here's the results from the alignment the other day. The left front is .1 out of camber. Should I take it back and see if they can get it right? Or am I just being OCD?
03 C2 996 w/18" wheels, daily driver, no track use.
I used to do alignments for a living way back when and to me this is unacceptable. Basically its laziness because it was so close to the acceptable range they assumed people won't care. Now I agree it has ZERO effect on the drivability or the wearing of tires, just laziness. If you have a worn part preventing them from getting to spec they should have notified you of that, and not done the alignment until replaced because it basically negates the alignment. Just my 2 cents.
I used to do alignments for a living way back when and to me this is unacceptable. Basically its laziness because it was so close to the acceptable range they assumed people won't care. Now I agree it has ZERO effect on the drivability or the wearing of tires, just laziness. If you have a worn part preventing them from getting to spec they should have notified you of that, and not done the alignment until replaced because it basically negates the alignment. Just my 2 cents.
As a current tech who takes pride in his work i must agree completely with this statement. What this tech did to this car is known as a "Toe and GO". Your car spent maybe 15 minutes on the rack. 10 Minutes was the test drive and setting up the machine. 4 minutes was walking to his tool box and getting the wrenches. The other minute was the actual adjustment. Most cars take less than 30 mins to perform an alignment - regardless of what the service advisor will tell you. Do you really think there is a difference spending $250 at the dealer or $80 at you local shop.. NOPE!
When doing alignments every car is different. Some are built with everything being factory adjustable, some only have a few items that can be adjusted. Some cars will need shims, correction kits, new parts, or even a body shop to fix a bent component all at an additional cost. When a car cannot be adjusted back to factory specs with normal adjustment, you should be contacted about the options you have prior to the tech proceeding.
This kind of alignment is only acceptable in one situation. The customer was made aware that no further adjustment is possible and it could not be corrected with out aftermarket parts (correction kits or shims) or replacement of worn out or bent parts. Most likely this was just a tech who didn't care to make the camber adjustment. I'm sure he thought it was close enough. The simple part is you paid for a service and that service should be performed to as close to perfect specs unless there is a good reason why it was not possible and you were notified. It's not being OCD or a a-hole. Take that thing back and have them make it right.
As a current tech who takes pride in his work i must agree completely with this statement. What this tech did to this car is known as a "Toe and GO". Your car spent maybe 15 minutes on the rack. 10 Minutes was the test drive and setting up the machine. 4 minutes was walking to his tool box and getting the wrenches. The other minute was the actual adjustment. Most cars take less than 30 mins to perform an alignment - regardless of what the service advisor will tell you. Do you really think there is a difference spending $250 at the dealer or $80 at you local shop.. NOPE!
When doing alignments every car is different. Some are built with everything being factory adjustable, some only have a few items that can be adjusted. Some cars will need shims, correction kits, new parts, or even a body shop to fix a bent component all at an additional cost. When a car cannot be adjusted back to factory specs with normal adjustment, you should be contacted about the options you have prior to the tech proceeding.
This kind of alignment is only acceptable in one situation. The customer was made aware that no further adjustment is possible and it could not be corrected with out aftermarket parts (correction kits or shims) or replacement of worn out or bent parts. Most likely this was just a tech who didn't care to make the camber adjustment. I'm sure he thought it was close enough. The simple part is you paid for a service and that service should be performed to as close to perfect specs unless there is a good reason why it was not possible and you were notified. It's not being OCD or a a-hole. Take that thing back and have them make it right.
Thanks! I know what some techs used to do and it was ridiculous. If they knew you had no tire wear or serious pulling but the wheel just wasn't straight, we could straighten the steering wheel by adjusting the toe in the back lot and not ever pull it in. I never did but people would because it was a flat rate shop, "SEND IT!!!"
Thanks! I know what some techs used to do and it was ridiculous. If they knew you had no tire wear or serious pulling but the wheel just wasn't straight, we could straighten the steering wheel by adjusting the toe in the back lot and not ever pull it in. I never did but people would because it was a flat rate shop, "SEND IT!!!"
I thank the car gods every day that i get paid salary and not hourly or flat rate. At the place i work we pride ourselves on quality not quantity, It's really sad what some of these techs do because the way they get paid. Almost don't know who to blame anymore - the tech or the company who pays them crap.
I thank the car gods every day that i get paid salary and not hourly or flat rate. At the place i work we pride ourselves on quality not quantity, It's really sad what some of these techs do because the way they get paid. Almost don't know who to blame anymore - the tech or the company who pays them crap.
I left that business 17 years ago and I am glad. I made great money for a "kid" in my early 20's but I didn't like the industry as a whole. Took the fun out of working on cars at home. Had 7 aASE certs and they still didn't wan to pay good money. Screw that...
I thank the car gods every day that i get paid salary and not hourly or flat rate. At the place i work we pride ourselves on quality not quantity, It's really sad what some of these techs do because the way they get paid. Almost don't know who to blame anymore - the tech or the company who pays them crap.
It’s definitely both + the cheapskate customer that wants the world for a dollar.
I’ve been on both sides of the dealership experience in both sales and service and, from my perspective, the cultural phenomenon of “give me everything for nothing” hits that industry especially hard for some reason. As a result of my experience I have high expectations. But I’m willing to pay for a job to be done right. I’d honestly rather do the work myself, but I don’t have things like alignment racks and tire machines, etc.
I don’t blame low wage workers for providing bad service. But I won’t let them work on my prized possession(s) either.
It’s definitely both + the cheapskate customer that wants the world for a dollar.
I’ve been on both sides of the dealership experience in both sales and service and, from my perspective, the cultural phenomenon of “give me everything for nothing” hits that industry especially hard for some reason. As a result of my experience I have high expectations. But I’m willing to pay for a job to be done right. I’d honestly rather do the work myself, but I don’t have things like alignment racks and tire machines, etc.
I don’t blame low wage workers for providing bad service. But I won’t let them work on my prized possession(s) either.
Unfortunately there is a lot to blame for the mechanic industry. I have seen the business change in many good ways in bad in my 20 years as a tech. The part that frustrates me is so much of it is avoidable. A lot of times the business model has to change, If you have a customer who dosen't want to pay, brings there own cheap parts, or who is just a pain - they don't need to be your customer. I am glad to see that the owner of our shop has no issue telling a customer that we can't help them or to take there care somewhere else when they say Joe's shop up the street is cheaper.
We also have cars that are so much more complex than they use to be and require some high dollar equipment to repair them. I work at an independent shop who works on all makes and models. One particular scan tool is not enough. My most expensive Diagnostic scanner is just over $10,000 and cost $2200 a year to keep it updated. Who pays for that? I have too. Then as stated one tool isn't enough, working on all makes and models you need to have several different version since god knows one company can't build a tool to do everything for every car. I would be i have 30,000 just in scan tools and laptops for programming cars, never mind the 15,000 toolbox and tens of thousands of dollars in tools. My tool bill alone with snap on last year was just over 12k. Thankfully i get paid very very well. But alot of shops don't and won't pay good and they expect to get an amazing tech. It's sad that they expect these new up and coming techs to buy all this stuff and only want to pay 25k to 40k for a tech. You get what you pay for not only as a customer but also as a business owner.
It’s definitely both + the cheapskate customer that wants the world for a dollar..
I agree. It wasn’t until I was a seller that I really understood how bad I was as a buyer. I’ve been on both sides now. In the U.S. anyway, most people tend to look to buy the best item they can find at the lowest cost without considering other factors.
01-03-2019, 11:57 AM
Alignment specs bugging me, am I obsessing?
