Scared of IMS and RMS
12-07-2018, 04:02 AM
#1
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Scared of IMS and RMS
Recently bought a 996 with 80k miles. Owner took beautiful care of the car and serviced it all the way until he passed away. He had the LN bearing and RMS work done 10k miles before so at 70k. He also had a lot of other parts re-done with receipt and proof. I heard that LN bearings are still prone to fail so should I be scared? Need some feedback thats all! Thanks. Also any recommended warranties in the SoCal area?
12-07-2018, 05:27 AM
#2
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Recently bought a 996 with 80k miles. Owner took beautiful care of the car and serviced it all the way until he passed away. He had the LN bearing and RMS work done 10k miles before so at 70k. He also had a lot of other parts re-done with receipt and proof. I heard that LN bearings are still prone to fail so should I be scared? Need some feedback thats all! Thanks. Also any recommended warranties in the SoCal area?
12-07-2018, 09:20 AM
#3
Recently bought a 996 with 80k miles. Owner took beautiful care of the car and serviced it all the way until he passed away. He had the LN bearing and RMS work done 10k miles before so at 70k. He also had a lot of other parts re-done with receipt and proof. I heard that LN bearings are still prone to fail so should I be scared? Need some feedback thats all! Thanks. Also any recommended warranties in the SoCal area?
http://imsretrofit.com/service-intervals/
Sounds like you have a well cared for 996. Go out and enjoy it! Don't let the internet hype steal your fun out of the car!
12-07-2018, 09:30 AM
#4
From what I understand, the cause of IMSB failure is not so much the bearing as much as the runout on the intermediate shaft. If the intermediate shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, it won’t matter how many bearings you throw at it, it’ll just keep eating through them. There are ways to combat this, but only one sure fire fix: rebuild the engine with an updated intermediate shaft - this is the only real permanent solution; any bearing replacement, plain, ceramic ball bearing, or otherwise, is going to fail eventually when it’s at the end of a shaft with too much runout. It is unlikely that your engine has an intermediate shaft that is out of tolerance, especially now that the cars are as old as they are.
It is recommended by some that you install a magnetic oil drain plug and conduct regular and frequent oil analyses to monitor the IMSB wear and replace it when signs of its imminent failure present themselves; this becomes part of the regular scheduled maintenance and is ongoing, but seems superfluous if the IMS is within runout tolerance.
Again, if the shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, no matter the bearing, it’s going to have catastrophic failure eventually and inevitably. Replacing the IMSB as a preventative measure is a temporary and ongoing solution. That said, the replacement frequency would vary with the severity of the shaft runout and the resiliency of the bearing. One could conceivably be replacing bearings in as little as 10k miles or as many as 50k miles.
So, long story short, if your intermediate shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, your engine is going to have to come apart eventually - from catastrophic failure or as a preventative measure. Intermediate shaft bearing wear is a tell tale sign of shaft runout and your options are to replace the IMS and fix it (probably) for good, or to replace the IMSB with as much frequency as is necessary for your peace of mind.
This is my understanding from reading the available information online from several sources and coming to my own conclusions. I have a mechanical background; I’ve been trained to and have serviced and repaired various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military. I have a decent grasp of how things work from a practical perspective, however I am not a trained engineer, nor do I have any hands-on mechanical experience with any Porsche.
It is recommended by some that you install a magnetic oil drain plug and conduct regular and frequent oil analyses to monitor the IMSB wear and replace it when signs of its imminent failure present themselves; this becomes part of the regular scheduled maintenance and is ongoing, but seems superfluous if the IMS is within runout tolerance.
Again, if the shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, no matter the bearing, it’s going to have catastrophic failure eventually and inevitably. Replacing the IMSB as a preventative measure is a temporary and ongoing solution. That said, the replacement frequency would vary with the severity of the shaft runout and the resiliency of the bearing. One could conceivably be replacing bearings in as little as 10k miles or as many as 50k miles.
So, long story short, if your intermediate shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, your engine is going to have to come apart eventually - from catastrophic failure or as a preventative measure. Intermediate shaft bearing wear is a tell tale sign of shaft runout and your options are to replace the IMS and fix it (probably) for good, or to replace the IMSB with as much frequency as is necessary for your peace of mind.
This is my understanding from reading the available information online from several sources and coming to my own conclusions. I have a mechanical background; I’ve been trained to and have serviced and repaired various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military. I have a decent grasp of how things work from a practical perspective, however I am not a trained engineer, nor do I have any hands-on mechanical experience with any Porsche.
12-07-2018, 10:45 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
3-4K mile oil changes, cut open and check your filters and drive it like you stole it. Keep the RPM's up above 3K and enjoy you car...
12-07-2018, 10:57 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
From what I understand, the cause of IMSB failure is not so much the bearing as much as the runout on the intermediate shaft. If the intermediate shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, it won’t matter how many bearings you throw at it, it’ll just keep eating through them. There are ways to combat this, but only one sure fire fix: rebuild the engine with an updated intermediate shaft - this is the only real permanent solution; any bearing replacement, plain, ceramic ball bearing, or otherwise, is going to fail eventually when it’s at the end of a shaft with too much runout. It is unlikely that your engine has an intermediate shaft that is out of tolerance, especially now that the cars are as old as they are.
It is recommended by some that you install a magnetic oil drain plug and conduct regular and frequent oil analyses to monitor the IMSB wear and replace it when signs of its imminent failure present themselves; this becomes part of the regular scheduled maintenance and is ongoing, but seems superfluous if the IMS is within runout tolerance.
Again, if the shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, no matter the bearing, it’s going to have catastrophic failure eventually and inevitably. Replacing the IMSB as a preventative measure is a temporary and ongoing solution. That said, the replacement frequency would vary with the severity of the shaft runout and the resiliency of the bearing. One could conceivably be replacing bearings in as little as 10k miles or as many as 50k miles.
So, long story short, if your intermediate shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, your engine is going to have to come apart eventually - from catastrophic failure or as a preventative measure. Intermediate shaft bearing wear is a tell tale sign of shaft runout and your options are to replace the IMS and fix it (probably) for good, or to replace the IMSB with as much frequency as is necessary for your peace of mind.
This is my understanding from reading the available information online from several sources and coming to my own conclusions. I have a mechanical background; I’ve been trained to and have serviced and repaired various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military. I have a decent grasp of how things work from a practical perspective, however I am not a trained engineer, nor do I have any hands-on mechanical experience with any Porsche.
It is recommended by some that you install a magnetic oil drain plug and conduct regular and frequent oil analyses to monitor the IMSB wear and replace it when signs of its imminent failure present themselves; this becomes part of the regular scheduled maintenance and is ongoing, but seems superfluous if the IMS is within runout tolerance.
Again, if the shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, no matter the bearing, it’s going to have catastrophic failure eventually and inevitably. Replacing the IMSB as a preventative measure is a temporary and ongoing solution. That said, the replacement frequency would vary with the severity of the shaft runout and the resiliency of the bearing. One could conceivably be replacing bearings in as little as 10k miles or as many as 50k miles.
So, long story short, if your intermediate shaft isn’t within runout tolerance, your engine is going to have to come apart eventually - from catastrophic failure or as a preventative measure. Intermediate shaft bearing wear is a tell tale sign of shaft runout and your options are to replace the IMS and fix it (probably) for good, or to replace the IMSB with as much frequency as is necessary for your peace of mind.
This is my understanding from reading the available information online from several sources and coming to my own conclusions. I have a mechanical background; I’ve been trained to and have serviced and repaired various aerial and ground vehicles, civilian and military. I have a decent grasp of how things work from a practical perspective, however I am not a trained engineer, nor do I have any hands-on mechanical experience with any Porsche.
Problem is you can't quantify the runout without engine disassembly, so you just have to assume your shaft is good. The only thing I can guarantee you is that if you have a catastrophic bearing failures, that failure will damage the shaft, resulting in excessive runout.
Waiting until a bearing failure presents itself is too late for bearing replacement. At that point, FOD has being spread throughout the engine and collateral damage from debris is almost a given.
Although some people say otherwise, any roller or ball bearing will have a service interval. Any bearing manufacturer will tell you that.
The IMS Solution, being a plain bearing, is designed for the life of the engine (as long as you have oil in said engine).
Ultimately, there are those who are of the mindset that they don't need to change the bearing. It's a free world and everyone can make their own decision based on the available information. Just be sure you are getting your information from a verified source and that it's factual and not based solely on opinion.
12-07-2018, 11:47 AM
#7
At that point, FOD has being spread throughout the engine and collateral damage from debris is almost a given.
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12-07-2018, 11:48 AM
#8
Runout of the IMS shafts is one of many issues with the intermediate shaft, but not the only one or the ultimate root cause. We rebuild hundreds of shafts a year and check every single one for runout. New shafts can have up to about .005" of runout from the factory and is our "wear limit" when checking shafts. If it has more than .005", we advise running an IMS Solution as it doesn't care. The part is running on a film of oil and the slight runout won't affect the IMS Solution. We'll run a solution without any concern even with .010" of runout and have for years.
Problem is you can't quantify the runout without engine disassembly, so you just have to assume your shaft is good. The only thing I can guarantee you is that if you have a catastrophic bearing failures, that failure will damage the shaft, resulting in excessive runout.
Waiting until a bearing failure presents itself is too late for bearing replacement. At that point, FOD has being spread throughout the engine and collateral damage from debris is almost a given.
Although some people say otherwise, any roller or ball bearing will have a service interval. Any bearing manufacturer will tell you that.
The IMS Solution, being a plain bearing, is designed for the life of the engine (as long as you have oil in said engine).
Ultimately, there are those who are of the mindset that they don't need to change the bearing. It's a free world and everyone can make their own decision based on the available information. Just be sure you are getting your information from a verified source and that it's factual and not based solely on opinion.
Problem is you can't quantify the runout without engine disassembly, so you just have to assume your shaft is good. The only thing I can guarantee you is that if you have a catastrophic bearing failures, that failure will damage the shaft, resulting in excessive runout.
Waiting until a bearing failure presents itself is too late for bearing replacement. At that point, FOD has being spread throughout the engine and collateral damage from debris is almost a given.
Although some people say otherwise, any roller or ball bearing will have a service interval. Any bearing manufacturer will tell you that.
The IMS Solution, being a plain bearing, is designed for the life of the engine (as long as you have oil in said engine).
Ultimately, there are those who are of the mindset that they don't need to change the bearing. It's a free world and everyone can make their own decision based on the available information. Just be sure you are getting your information from a verified source and that it's factual and not based solely on opinion.
Personally, I plan to do the IMS Solution. I prefer the plain bearing, especially in that particular application. But I’m not going to do it until there is a reason to drop the engine and/or transmission. My car has 23k miles on it, so I’m hoping I have a lot of driving to do before I need to replace things. But when it comes time to replace something like an IMSB, I’d like to replace those parts with superior, better performing, longer-lasting units. That’s me, though. I’m sure monitoring one’s oil and replacing the IMSB as a scheduled maintenance item works just fine for most folks.
12-07-2018, 12:04 PM
#9
Former Vendor
IMSB Failure is a “sum” of all sorts of variables that create the equation. Every failure is a result of at least two things working to create a less than favorable equation.
Everyone wants to pinpoint one certain thing that creates the failure. Sorry- that doesn’t happen.
Everyone wants to pinpoint one certain thing that creates the failure. Sorry- that doesn’t happen.
12-07-2018, 12:08 PM
#10
I did so much reading on this matter prior to purchase. You can look at my threads. I factored in the bearing update with the IMS solution into the cost of the car. It wasn't cheap. It is only a waste of money if I write off the car. I had a hefty bill for the IMS solution. I figure if I sell the car tomorrow, I would probably recoup a portion of it. I have no plans on selling it. I thought long and hard about a 996 vs. 997.1 vs 997.2:
996: Included the cost of the IMS update in cost of the car. Nicer interior IMHO than the 997.1. I hated the number pad for the phone and useless NAV. No one uses NAV anymore. Your phone will always have better NAV than your car.
997.1: Did not like the phone pad, silver paint, bad HVAC buttons. No spare tire. About the same cost as a 996 once I did the IMS solution. Yes, I preferred these headlights.
997.2: Seriously considered it. Long term (10 years), I think this car would cost me much more $$$$ overall than the 996. I think the driving experience (not speed) is more fun in 996. No spare tire pushed me over.
**** Spare tire and why I care: Years ago, I upgraded the brakes on my mustang. Didn't check the spare to see if it fit. Realized 5 years later that it didn't fit and updated the spare. All I could think of was being at the side of the road with my wife and dog. My wife turning to me and saying: "Really the spare doesn't fit?" Fast forward, driving a car without a spare. I can't get my head around blowing a tire on a Saturday, 500 miles from home. Having to wait until Monday to MAYBE find a 285/30/18 in some small town. At least the spare will get me either to a city or somewhere closer to home. I'm also in Canada. Let's just say retail is horrible here and I could see waiting days for a replacement.
996: Included the cost of the IMS update in cost of the car. Nicer interior IMHO than the 997.1. I hated the number pad for the phone and useless NAV. No one uses NAV anymore. Your phone will always have better NAV than your car.
997.1: Did not like the phone pad, silver paint, bad HVAC buttons. No spare tire. About the same cost as a 996 once I did the IMS solution. Yes, I preferred these headlights.
997.2: Seriously considered it. Long term (10 years), I think this car would cost me much more $$$$ overall than the 996. I think the driving experience (not speed) is more fun in 996. No spare tire pushed me over.
**** Spare tire and why I care: Years ago, I upgraded the brakes on my mustang. Didn't check the spare to see if it fit. Realized 5 years later that it didn't fit and updated the spare. All I could think of was being at the side of the road with my wife and dog. My wife turning to me and saying: "Really the spare doesn't fit?" Fast forward, driving a car without a spare. I can't get my head around blowing a tire on a Saturday, 500 miles from home. Having to wait until Monday to MAYBE find a 285/30/18 in some small town. At least the spare will get me either to a city or somewhere closer to home. I'm also in Canada. Let's just say retail is horrible here and I could see waiting days for a replacement.
12-07-2018, 12:13 PM
#11
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I do have the receipt of the LN bearing change but I don't know if it was the IMS Solution or the other types of LN bearings. I will give them a call and ask what the owner put in. It was put in in 2013 so I am not sure if they had the IMS Solution at the time. To keep it noted, I will change my oil every 3-4k miles?
12-07-2018, 12:36 PM
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Is there anyone in the SoCal area that can recommend me a warranty company that will cover IMS and RMS issues. I would rather pay to have a good piece of mind while driving this beauty.
12-07-2018, 12:47 PM
#13
Jake Raby also contributed to PCA on the topics related to OEM IMS bearings and failure stages. Very informative stuff. Check it out...
12-07-2018, 01:40 PM
#14
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I too was scared. I stayed awake nights worrying that my '03 C2s IMS might go kablooey. So, I proactively replaced the OEM IMS in my 996. I enjoyed blissful peace of mind for 7 months until the "upgrade" went kablooey.
Indy and supplier both said, "that's not my fault, but we wil happily sell/install a replacement at full price and maybe muck up the car while it's in the shop"
I had the engine rebuilt - elsewhere - and it's back on the road again. I was sorely tempted to firebomb the indy that did the upgrade, but I satisfied my desire for retribution by paying a shaman to make sure he dies of eye, kidney, liver and testicular cancer.
Moral of story: Our cars are not invincible but they are fun. If something goes bang, fix it and move on. It is still waaaaay better than driving an incredibly reliable soul-sucking Toyota.
Indy and supplier both said, "that's not my fault, but we wil happily sell/install a replacement at full price and maybe muck up the car while it's in the shop"
I had the engine rebuilt - elsewhere - and it's back on the road again. I was sorely tempted to firebomb the indy that did the upgrade, but I satisfied my desire for retribution by paying a shaman to make sure he dies of eye, kidney, liver and testicular cancer.
Moral of story: Our cars are not invincible but they are fun. If something goes bang, fix it and move on. It is still waaaaay better than driving an incredibly reliable soul-sucking Toyota.
12-07-2018, 01:53 PM
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Thanks 
. The previous owner put about 10k miles on the new LN bearing that he put on before he passed away. I think I should just drive the car and worry less. The car is a beauty and maintained well. Ill probably change the oil every 4k miles just to make sure things are on top.
. The previous owner put about 10k miles on the new LN bearing that he put on before he passed away. I think I should just drive the car and worry less. The car is a beauty and maintained well. Ill probably change the oil every 4k miles just to make sure things are on top.