Changing oil viscosity to track my 996
09-02-2018, 01:41 PM
#46
Former Vendor
At the risk of guessing and propagating Internet myth, I’d guess that the goal is to make sure the oil does not foam (pick the right oil), and make sure it makes its way to the sump quick enough (make sure scavenging is efficient). Am I off, WAY off, or nowhere near, lol?
What people just don't grasp, is there's no single thing that can cause an engine to fail due to oil related issues. At the same time, there's no single thing that can be done to avoid this failure from striking. It takes several things, all of which are dependent upon the vehicle, the driver, and the operating environment greatly.
Someone in Florida on N Spec tires, and someone in Colorado on R Compounds have different environments, and applications. At the same time, a driver running around the track in the blue run group is going to also have a different set of needs than someone that's an instructor. We build engines from a worksheet full of facts about the car, the driver, and the operating environment. These things create the sum of what we will both do to an engine internally, and externally, and what that will cost.
Now, that being said... People spend all their time worrying about a given amount of oil volume in the engine, and returning it to the sump. While these are important parts of the equation, these things are part of the secondary oil system.
We worry about :
-The right oil
-With the right viscosity
-At the right place
-At the right time
-At the right temperature
-With the proper volume
These things are all related to the primary oil system. Over the years we've made larger, higher volume oil pumps, and etc, but nothing reduces the issues more than ensuring the internal clearances are correct, so shear is reduced. Put simply, from the factory these engines are too tight, and nothing promotes shear more than tight clearances. At the same time, opening clearances demands that oil volume be increased through the bearings, and thats where things come into play that aren't "easy" to do.
With our R51 (Version 3) engine we have maximized the capability of the factory M96/97 oil system, and for the first time we are finding that we must apply our dry sump system for those who want to see over 8,000 RPM consistently. With each step up the developmental ladder, a new weak link is presented. Our lives are spent chasing down those weak links, and fixing them, only to create another weak link, and then fix it. Thats all we do....
09-03-2018, 05:20 PM
#47
Former Vendor
It's tough to say without knowing the application, conditions and various other factors. Starting at 12 track hours/700 miles is probably a good start and working your way up from there with used oil analysis to secure maximum drain interval confirmation. It's not out of the norm that people have worked past 24+ hours on 300V and logged over 1500 miles with 300V still having life left in it. -Nick
09-03-2018, 06:31 PM
#49
5th Gear
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First, our product is group 5 ester synthetic based while Mobil 1, Driven etc are all grp 3 and grp 4 based.
-This statement is misleading. Driven’s XP9 also contains a blend of different Ester base oils, and lab testing indicates Mobil 1 0W-40 FS contains an Ester base stock.
- Did all of the oils tested have the same HTHS value?
09-03-2018, 07:25 PM
#50
Former Vendor
This was on the M97 engine.
Hello Lake,
Hope all is well.
Our product had the highest HTHS out of the oils tested so there was no low viscosity power advantage vs the other oils. All oils were a 0W40 and are well known brands.
Motul Trophy 0W40: 3.9
Oil 1: 3.6
Oil 2: 3.5
Oil 3: 3.5
Oil 4: 3.8
I didn’t say no other engine oils have esters.
-Nick
09-03-2018, 07:44 PM
#51
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Thanks for the reply on the HTHS values.
As we we both know, nearly all full synthetic race oils contain some level of Ester, and the original post could be read in a way that made it sound like other oils don’t contain esters. I’m not trying to pick a fight - just trying to clarify. I appreciate your response.
09-03-2018, 07:54 PM
#52
Former Vendor
Nick,
Thanks for the reply on the HTHS values.
As we we both know, nearly all full synthetic race oils contain some level of Ester, and the original post could be read in a way that made it sound like other oils don’t contain esters. I’m not trying to pick a fight - just trying to clarify. I appreciate your response.
We of course would put up our formulation against anyone and I’m happy to answer any further questions (without divulging proprietary info).
Good luck out there! -Nick
09-03-2018, 09:38 PM
#53
My car doesn't burn oil but does run hot at the track, do you still recommend 40 weight or is it better to move to 50 weight? I had UOA done on 40 weight oil after a few track days and results came back normal.
09-03-2018, 10:04 PM
#54
Former Vendor
What is the difference between the Motul 8100 line vs the Motul Sport line? Which one is recommended for casual tracking? (6-8 times a year, street tires, oil change twice a year)
My car doesn't burn oil but does run hot at the track, do you still recommend 40 weight or is it better to move to 50 weight? I had UOA done on 40 weight oil after a few track days and results came back normal.
My car doesn't burn oil but does run hot at the track, do you still recommend 40 weight or is it better to move to 50 weight? I had UOA done on 40 weight oil after a few track days and results came back normal.
The Sport product will have some Group 5 ester in it vs the 8100 oil line that doesn't. Group 5's have various performance advantages as previously mentioined over Group 3 and 4 synthetics- mainly in the ability to create more power reliably, better oil film strength and have polarity as well. Keep in mind that the 8100 X-cess 5W40 has Porsche OEM A40 approval where the Sport does not.
I would say even without a UOA staying at a 40 vs 50 would be ideal. Being that you have done a UOA and confirmed no harm being done, there’s no reason to switch. Often stepping up in grade can make things worse and create further technical issues.
Finally, either product will perform admirably in your application as the 8100 X-cess can be used as a dedicated track oil. Personally, If you want to spend the money and upgrade, I would just recommend stepping up to 300V vs Sport as the upside is quite high. -Nick
Last edited by Motul; 09-03-2018 at 10:22 PM.
09-06-2018, 05:37 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the technical information and discussion from Motul, Jake, and Lake !! With the advancement in lubrication and metallurgy in combustion engines this kind of info is invaluable. In the last couple decades normal wear has been decreased substantially, but seems sudden failures have not. I love to see head to head comparisons, need more of it ( such as aeration). thanks !!
09-07-2018, 12:12 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Cheers to competing vendors for engaging in professional and informative discussion. We need more of that around here! 
09-07-2018, 09:17 AM
#57
Instructor
Good thread, I've been learning more and more about oils since owning my 996. Currently at 68k miles - For the past year I've been running Mobil1 0w-40 on street and on track (oil changed before and after each track day). After 3 UOA done everything has been checking out fine but ambient temperatures have always been cooler. I stepped up to Motul 5w-50 Sport for a track event next week that will be very hot for the car. I'll run a UOA on that oil and see what comes back. After that event, I've been thinking to use Motul 5w-40 X-cess for street driving, it has a great reputation from everyone here as well as from mechanics. The debate I have: is it too much to go from 0w-40 to 5w-50 to 5w-40 over a short period of time? Would I be better off to stick with the 5w-50 "long term" since that switch in weight is the first weight change over the life of the car?
09-07-2018, 02:26 PM
#58
Former Vendor
Good thread, I've been learning more and more about oils since owning my 996. Currently at 68k miles - For the past year I've been running Mobil1 0w-40 on street and on track (oil changed before and after each track day). After 3 UOA done everything has been checking out fine but ambient temperatures have always been cooler. I stepped up to Motul 5w-50 Sport for a track event next week that will be very hot for the car. I'll run a UOA on that oil and see what comes back. After that event, I've been thinking to use Motul 5w-40 X-cess for street driving, it has a great reputation from everyone here as well as from mechanics. The debate I have: is it too much to go from 0w-40 to 5w-50 to 5w-40 over a short period of time? Would I be better off to stick with the 5w-50 "long term" since that switch in weight is the first weight change over the life of the car?
No issues with changing between those viscosities even in close duration with each other. -Nick