996.2 cold start smoke
#1
996.2 cold start smoke
I have problems with blue white smoke at cold start on my 02 carrera 2
I have changed the AOS two times. The first one was aftermarket which didn't did any difference. It still smoked from the time the engine cranked
Then I replaced it with an original one and now it starts to smoke after 6-8 seconds after the engine has started but only left side exhaust. This continues
for 2 minutes or so while clearing up.
there are no ticking or knocking sounds And the exhaust tips are clean both sides.
when I remove the throttle body I can see and feel some oil in the intake. Mostly right side. And the pipe from the AOS is also oily.
When I remove the oil filler Cap at idle, when the car is cold, I can feel not very high, but some vacuum and the engine starts to go very rough.
When cap is removed warm it feels more like "normal" (very little) vacuum and there is only little change in engine idle.
I feel tempted to go for a third AOS change?
The engine is running strong and not smoking when driving or at WOT
Oil level is in the middle.
the engine has done 55000 km after rebuild.
I have changed the AOS two times. The first one was aftermarket which didn't did any difference. It still smoked from the time the engine cranked
Then I replaced it with an original one and now it starts to smoke after 6-8 seconds after the engine has started but only left side exhaust. This continues
for 2 minutes or so while clearing up.
there are no ticking or knocking sounds And the exhaust tips are clean both sides.
when I remove the throttle body I can see and feel some oil in the intake. Mostly right side. And the pipe from the AOS is also oily.
When I remove the oil filler Cap at idle, when the car is cold, I can feel not very high, but some vacuum and the engine starts to go very rough.
When cap is removed warm it feels more like "normal" (very little) vacuum and there is only little change in engine idle.
I feel tempted to go for a third AOS change?
The engine is running strong and not smoking when driving or at WOT
Oil level is in the middle.
the engine has done 55000 km after rebuild.
#2
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 5,811
Likes: 0
Received 1,090 Likes
on
700 Posts
Left side exhaust is Bank 2, right side of engine where the AOS breather hose vents, so it does sound like an AOS problem. It is not that unusual for an AOS to go bad, even a new one out of the box. True test would be the manometer on a modified oil filler cap to measure the crankcase vacuum. There are some threads on here on how to do that and some benchmark measurements. I sure would do that before tackling an AOS replacement project, unless you are not the one doing the work. How old is the AOS now?
#4
Nordschleife Master
A bad AOS will smoke all the time. Also isn't there a check where you can have the car running and then remove the oil cap, the car will run rough if there is a problem but a good AOS will compensate quickly and will run smooth. Having a puff of blue smoke at cold startup is normal for a flat-6 as oil can get past and pool which is burnt off at startup.White smoke is just the water condensation in the oil burning off.
#5
Rennlist Member
Seems unlikely 3 AOS went bad in a row? What does the blue/white smoke smell like? My car smokes occasionally when I move it from the garage, to the driveway, then restart to move it back to the garage. When I do that, I suspect the smoke is fuel or water, and it sometimes looks whiteish.
Is it possible you overfilled with oil?
Some of these cars smoke on startup. Maybe you have one and there isn’t anything significantly wrong with it?
Is it possible you overfilled with oil?
Some of these cars smoke on startup. Maybe you have one and there isn’t anything significantly wrong with it?
#7
Racer
There could be residual left over in the intake from the bad AOS. Clean out the manifold with alcohol soaked paper towels as best you can and see how it goes.
Trending Topics
#9
Thanks for the replys
I bought the car in august last year in Munich and drove the car home 1100km without any oil use at all. Next morning it started with a huge cloud and I thought, well it's just the AOS
I changed it and cleaned all oil out of the intake. After 100km the intake was covered in oil again.
Changed the AOS now to a OEM and it helped a lot. It smoked less and less, but then it started to increase again.
Now it starts to smoke after 6-8 seconds Idle instead of before where it smoked right from the time the engine cranked.
I still gets some oil in my intake.
It is not overfilled and I don't use aditives
I bought the car in august last year in Munich and drove the car home 1100km without any oil use at all. Next morning it started with a huge cloud and I thought, well it's just the AOS
I changed it and cleaned all oil out of the intake. After 100km the intake was covered in oil again.
Changed the AOS now to a OEM and it helped a lot. It smoked less and less, but then it started to increase again.
Now it starts to smoke after 6-8 seconds Idle instead of before where it smoked right from the time the engine cranked.
I still gets some oil in my intake.
It is not overfilled and I don't use aditives
#10
How did you clean the intake manifold? They can hold a lot of residual oil where the three runners merge so you need to go very deep on both sides.
Also use a manometer to measure crankcase vacuum (from the oil filler tube) and it should be around 5 inches of water.
Also use a manometer to measure crankcase vacuum (from the oil filler tube) and it should be around 5 inches of water.
#12
Rennlist Member
Mine does a large puff of smoke after sitting for awhile or after hard driving. AOS tests around 5 with my manometer. I do have some oil in the intake last time I had it off. I have not investigated further but curious what turns turns up from this. Could an AOS be bad yet still show a normal reading on the manometer?
#13
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 5,811
Likes: 0
Received 1,090 Likes
on
700 Posts
Damn things are a bit complicated. They are designed to capture oil in the crankcase fumes, drain the captured oil back to the crankcase and vent the crankcase fumes (ideally without much vaporized oil in it) to Bank 2 and to the Throttle Body (vent lines 4 and 5 here http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/hardparts.php?dir=996-99-05§ion=104-10). The puffs of smoke, oil in the TB and intake plenum, James Bond smoke screens and smoking after hard driving or sweeping right handers are all a result of the AOS being either marginally bad or being totally overwhelmed by oil sloshing around in the crankcase and getting sucked up into the vent lines. The crankcase should be under vacuum, but under certain say hard aggressive driving at high RPM's, there may be much less vacuum which affects the overall performance of the AOS. Normal reading on a manometer at idle may not be indicative of what happens to the AOS under full running conditions. At best it is a crappy plastic device that is a PITA to replace and is the source of great consternation to many. I believe even Jake mentioned one time that he has found new AOS's bad right out of the box. Given the fact it is heated by coolant lines and there is just a cruddy diaphragm separating the coolant/crankcase fumes, there is one more major PITA thing to go wrong.
Pretty good read on AOS testing and function https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...this-mean.html
I would not worry so much about a puff of smoke. It is actually quite normal to have some oil in the intake because of the mist of oil vapor being vented by the AOS. I have a good, functioning AOS, and every time I remove the TB for cleaning I always find a light coating of oil in the intake plenum. It is not normal to have the intake overwhelmed with oil and creating a smoke screen. But, overall, it is still kind of a crap shoot with the AOS.
Pretty good read on AOS testing and function https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...this-mean.html
I would not worry so much about a puff of smoke. It is actually quite normal to have some oil in the intake because of the mist of oil vapor being vented by the AOS. I have a good, functioning AOS, and every time I remove the TB for cleaning I always find a light coating of oil in the intake plenum. It is not normal to have the intake overwhelmed with oil and creating a smoke screen. But, overall, it is still kind of a crap shoot with the AOS.
#14
Rennlist Member
Damn things are a bit complicated. They are designed to capture oil in the crankcase fumes, drain the captured oil back to the crankcase and vent the crankcase fumes (ideally without much vaporized oil in it) to Bank 2 and to the Throttle Body (vent lines 4 and 5 here http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/hardparts.php?dir=996-99-05§ion=104-10). The puffs of smoke, oil in the TB and intake plenum, James Bond smoke screens and smoking after hard driving or sweeping right handers are all a result of the AOS being either marginally bad or being totally overwhelmed by oil sloshing around in the crankcase and getting sucked up into the vent lines. The crankcase should be under vacuum, but under certain say hard aggressive driving at high RPM's, there may be much less vacuum which affects the overall performance of the AOS. Normal reading on a manometer at idle may not be indicative of what happens to the AOS under full running conditions. At best it is a crappy plastic device that is a PITA to replace and is the source of great consternation to many. I believe even Jake mentioned one time that he has found new AOS's bad right out of the box. Given the fact it is heated by coolant lines and there is just a cruddy diaphragm separating the coolant/crankcase fumes, there is one more major PITA thing to go wrong.
Pretty good read on AOS testing and function https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...this-mean.html
I would not worry so much about a puff of smoke. It is actually quite normal to have some oil in the intake because of the mist of oil vapor being vented by the AOS. I have a good, functioning AOS, and every time I remove the TB for cleaning I always find a light coating of oil in the intake plenum. It is not normal to have the intake overwhelmed with oil and creating a smoke screen. But, overall, it is still kind of a crap shoot with the AOS.
Pretty good read on AOS testing and function https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...this-mean.html
I would not worry so much about a puff of smoke. It is actually quite normal to have some oil in the intake because of the mist of oil vapor being vented by the AOS. I have a good, functioning AOS, and every time I remove the TB for cleaning I always find a light coating of oil in the intake plenum. It is not normal to have the intake overwhelmed with oil and creating a smoke screen. But, overall, it is still kind of a crap shoot with the AOS.
My understanding is the mode of failure of the stock AOS is that the rubber diaphragm gets a hole in it and allows oil thru (along with crankcase vacuum) - Hence the irregular manometer readings when it's failed. Is there a way for oil to bypass the AOS then even if the diaphragm is intact? That would appear to be what is happening on my 996 as it tests around 5 on the manometer.
I am running my 996 mostly on the track with track suspension setup and Hoosier R7's. I do have a 2 quart deep sump and run the oil level at the bottom 3 bars as recommended, but still appear to be picking oil up into the intake somehow....evidenced by a big, brief cloud of smoke at startup. Interestingly if I come off track and the car sits for say 1 hour, when I restart I don't get any smoke. If I let it sit for 2-3 hours, or overnight I get a big smoke at startup the next AM.
#15
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ormond Beach, FL
Posts: 5,811
Likes: 0
Received 1,090 Likes
on
700 Posts
I don't know if the Motorsports AOS will work on a Mk1. Most say it only is for the MkII engine. Anyway, interesting reading http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-g...s-failing.html