Porsche remanufactured short blocks
03-20-2018, 02:03 PM
#121
Enjoying the forum and really learning a lot from this thread. Porschetech3 ,Charles and especially Baz and others providing a lot of knowledgeable info on the heart of the issue.
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BlackSlacks (10-18-2019)
03-21-2018, 06:11 AM
#122
I think our cost base is different in the UK and our location is in the North West of the UK which has a lower cost base than the South as well.
Also because we carry out all the work "in house" we minimise transport costs and sharing profit margins with other contributors while we have a mini production line running that could only be sustained if the volume of orders continues.
You can view our speeded up 3 minute video on our web site showing the whole process from driving into our factory to out again. It is available on www.hartech.org
Specialists with lower throughput tend to occupy a lot of space in their workshops with stripped parts while they rebuild the engines whereas we have it organised in storage boxes and areas as well.
We also enjoy a massive stores with thousands of parts already in stock for all the rebuilds - so there is no delay in the build process.
In fact the longest delays are (1) the customer deciding what level of rebuild he wants and (2) them finding the money to pay for the job and collect the car!
Baz
Also because we carry out all the work "in house" we minimise transport costs and sharing profit margins with other contributors while we have a mini production line running that could only be sustained if the volume of orders continues.
You can view our speeded up 3 minute video on our web site showing the whole process from driving into our factory to out again. It is available on www.hartech.org
Specialists with lower throughput tend to occupy a lot of space in their workshops with stripped parts while they rebuild the engines whereas we have it organised in storage boxes and areas as well.
We also enjoy a massive stores with thousands of parts already in stock for all the rebuilds - so there is no delay in the build process.
In fact the longest delays are (1) the customer deciding what level of rebuild he wants and (2) them finding the money to pay for the job and collect the car!
Baz
03-22-2018, 01:39 AM
#124
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I thought I would update my original post. I got my 996 back from Trophy Performance here in Las Vegas today. The car is running wonderful and according to Todd at Trophy the short block was comprised of 100% new parts as has been stated previously in this thread. It had the latest IMS with the large bearing, it appeared that all internals and the block were new as well as new chains, guides and even the short guides for in between the cams. I can't be more pleased with the outcome of the project and the wonderful work and professionalism shown by Todd and his crew at Trophy. Given that the crank was unusable, 3 rods were shot and the bore scored, I'm glad I followed Todd's recommendation to move forward with the factory short block. It took a while to arrive as I didn't want to pay air shipping from Germany, but the wait was worth it. Again, I could not recommend Trophy Performance any higher to anyone in the Las Vegas area for work on their Porsche automobile.
The following 2 users liked this post by kukaepe:
BlackSlacks (10-18-2019),
Eurocarguy911 (01-13-2022)
03-22-2018, 06:14 AM
#125
Kukaepe, that’s a good result and I agree that if you have so many parts damaged in your original engine the short block makes a lot of sense – well done.
Strathconaman, our technology transfer with Alpine is going very well thank you.
Our cylinder solution is quite different in principle to any others. It seems similar except we completely machine out the old cylinder casting area so our new cylinder becomes a wet cylinder and has no interference fits between 2 different components parts. It is also twice as thick as the two parts would be if a thinner liner was fitted inside a machined out area of the original cylinder and hence results in much more stable cylinder with more accurate piston clearance and roundness control together with better heat transfer.
Our cylinders also fit at the top in a precision machined recess (and some oversized engine versions even have a support ring at the bottom as well) making them all closed deck design closest in design to the GT3 and Turbo replacement cylinders.
However machining the original cylinder block to fit them requires a very high degree of accuracy that many traditional machine shops used to fitting ferrous liners would not be able to achieve. We have often been requested to just sell the cylinders for others to fit (and appreciate that sending heavy cylinder blocks to the UK causes delays and additional costs) but we know our solution is the best technically and our feedback from fitting thousands without any problems over the last decade supports that confidence – so we would like our solution to be experienced Worldwide but we are concerned that the quality would diminish the reliability of the outcome and prefer to keep quality as our first priority above volume sales.
Alpine Autowerks in Calgary have a very similar philosophy to ours and have invested in our solution with reciprocal visits and machinery and are similarly more concerned to get everything absolutely right as a priority over sales and hence it has taken a little longer than others must expect but this has only been because of the highly technical involvement we have had and developing what is a much more precise production system than conventional liner replacement. They are ready now to take on the work for our standard production range and we in turn are increasing our orders for our liners (manufactured under licence by a formula 1 supplier). You would normally expect our solution to cost more than anyone else’s but in the UK we have managed to supply for similar prices to technically inferior alternatives because we invested in brand new CNC machines and carry out all the work “IN HOUSE” with a streamlined production process.
I doubt the volumes in Canada will ever justify reproducing that so I expect there to be some additional costs but hopefully still less than transport to and from the UK and with the added benefit of no customs problems or delays.
Our oversized engines are just beginning to become production items in the UK but there are some additional machining areas so in the short term these will still be machined in the UK but hopefully will eventually also transfer over to Canada.
Crankshaft failure does kill the viability of a rebuild/re-manufacture and that is one of the reasons we introduced the oversized versions to encourage owners to consider a pre-emptive rebuild while the original internals were still useable.
There is quite a lot of detail about our solution in our longer video on www.hartech.org
However there are other ways of doing things and some become more attractive depending on the condition of the failed engine and some solutions are better than others, costs vary and the outcome and life expectancy and reliability also varies. But if you want the best solution with the best record at a cost that is not much different to many other alternatives and are in Canada – I would contact Alpine to discuss their Hartech alternative from now on.
Baz
Strathconaman, our technology transfer with Alpine is going very well thank you.
Our cylinder solution is quite different in principle to any others. It seems similar except we completely machine out the old cylinder casting area so our new cylinder becomes a wet cylinder and has no interference fits between 2 different components parts. It is also twice as thick as the two parts would be if a thinner liner was fitted inside a machined out area of the original cylinder and hence results in much more stable cylinder with more accurate piston clearance and roundness control together with better heat transfer.
Our cylinders also fit at the top in a precision machined recess (and some oversized engine versions even have a support ring at the bottom as well) making them all closed deck design closest in design to the GT3 and Turbo replacement cylinders.
However machining the original cylinder block to fit them requires a very high degree of accuracy that many traditional machine shops used to fitting ferrous liners would not be able to achieve. We have often been requested to just sell the cylinders for others to fit (and appreciate that sending heavy cylinder blocks to the UK causes delays and additional costs) but we know our solution is the best technically and our feedback from fitting thousands without any problems over the last decade supports that confidence – so we would like our solution to be experienced Worldwide but we are concerned that the quality would diminish the reliability of the outcome and prefer to keep quality as our first priority above volume sales.
Alpine Autowerks in Calgary have a very similar philosophy to ours and have invested in our solution with reciprocal visits and machinery and are similarly more concerned to get everything absolutely right as a priority over sales and hence it has taken a little longer than others must expect but this has only been because of the highly technical involvement we have had and developing what is a much more precise production system than conventional liner replacement. They are ready now to take on the work for our standard production range and we in turn are increasing our orders for our liners (manufactured under licence by a formula 1 supplier). You would normally expect our solution to cost more than anyone else’s but in the UK we have managed to supply for similar prices to technically inferior alternatives because we invested in brand new CNC machines and carry out all the work “IN HOUSE” with a streamlined production process.
I doubt the volumes in Canada will ever justify reproducing that so I expect there to be some additional costs but hopefully still less than transport to and from the UK and with the added benefit of no customs problems or delays.
Our oversized engines are just beginning to become production items in the UK but there are some additional machining areas so in the short term these will still be machined in the UK but hopefully will eventually also transfer over to Canada.
Crankshaft failure does kill the viability of a rebuild/re-manufacture and that is one of the reasons we introduced the oversized versions to encourage owners to consider a pre-emptive rebuild while the original internals were still useable.
There is quite a lot of detail about our solution in our longer video on www.hartech.org
However there are other ways of doing things and some become more attractive depending on the condition of the failed engine and some solutions are better than others, costs vary and the outcome and life expectancy and reliability also varies. But if you want the best solution with the best record at a cost that is not much different to many other alternatives and are in Canada – I would contact Alpine to discuss their Hartech alternative from now on.
Baz
Last edited by bazhart; 03-22-2018 at 06:17 AM. Reason: spacing wrong
03-22-2018, 05:31 PM
#127
Instructor
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That's all good news, hopefully we get more exposure from Alpine for the North American customer base to consider.
Navigating the piles of M96 engines is confusing, is there any way to tell which is what? is the ending 2 letters just different codes for displacement?
996-100-996-XX vs TU or any of the other suffixes?
Navigating the piles of M96 engines is confusing, is there any way to tell which is what? is the ending 2 letters just different codes for displacement?
996-100-996-XX vs TU or any of the other suffixes?
03-22-2018, 07:16 PM
#128
So can someone break down the cost of getting a short block and having the heads done? Is the $20k+ rebuild no longer a forced option now? Just wondering
04-02-2018, 02:38 PM
#132
Burning Brakes
In a box of parts that came along with my short block was a piece of thin plastic about 13.5”x10.5”x0.015” thick. Anyone have any idea what this is??
everything else included is obvious, but of course no documentation was provided.
everything else included is obvious, but of course no documentation was provided.
05-30-2018, 12:24 PM
#133
Rennlist Member
05-30-2018, 09:03 PM
#134
This is a very interesting thread for a number of reasons. I’m a little OCD and every time I go out to my car, before I put the key in, I literally say a prayer to protect the car. With all 6,300 modes of failure for this engine I get a little nervous, but I just want to enjoy the car because it’s so great. With Porsche appearing to make the short block price a little more affordable and making it part of their “classics”, I didn’t have quite as much of the butterfly’s after reading this thread. If this is true and continues to be true, this is the nail in the coffin for the 996 naysayers. These cars are now “maintainable”. Let the values increase!
05-30-2018, 09:39 PM
#135
Drifting
