996 IMS retro fit make the motors safe?
01-05-2018, 10:13 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
And several failures after a new bearing was installed and car sold to an unsuspecting buyer. I'll have the "Solution" installed when my time comes!
01-05-2018, 11:15 PM
#47
Race Director
Let's be honest how pi##ed off would you be if you changed your imsb only to have a crank bearing or cylinder linning crack, all of these are possible and comparatively common but you waisted your money on an imsb, more to the point how pi##ed off will your partner be ;-)
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...today-and.html
01-05-2018, 11:32 PM
#48
This. I bought early in 2016 and just focus on keeping it running free of codes. The cylinders will oval in the next 100k miles, but the biggest % risk is likely gone. If I need to rebuild sooner than 100k from purchase, those are the breaks. Absolutely love my 996. And the Solution lets you pare down the risk and focus on enjoying the drive. Resale is easier too, buyers in the know pay for the value a Solution offers.
01-06-2018, 08:27 PM
#50
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anyhow if you had a new one it should be good for at least as long as you have the car, here in UK average Porsche mileage is 8k pa average length of ownership 2 or 3 years
01-07-2018, 11:50 AM
#51
Rennlist Member
Failure rates under warranty as produced by Porsche during the Eisen class action lawsuit point to a 8% failure rate for the single row and 1% for the dual row. Considering the IMS Retrofit has been around for almost 10 years, its track record speaks for itself.
There have been zero failures of any engine that was properly pre-qualified before an IMS Retrofit procedure was carried out. This is backed with zero failures of the Single Row Pro and Dual Row IMS Retrofits along with the IMS Solution.
No one is arguing with the choice of what kit to use or whether it is their choice to roll the dice on whether or not their bearing will fail. One fact for sure is that if the original bearing has started to fail or has failed, it's too late to change the bearing.
Another fact is that there are lots of things that can fail in an M96 engine, many of which result in collateral damage, including that of any engine part lubricated by engine oil.
01-07-2018, 01:17 PM
#52
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How did you come to this conclusion? The preponderance of data suggests otherwise.
Failure rates under warranty as produced by Porsche during the Eisen class action lawsuit point to a 8% failure rate for the single row and 1% for the dual row. Considering the IMS Retrofit has been around for almost 10 years, its track record speaks for itself.
There have been zero failures of any engine that was properly pre-qualified before an IMS Retrofit procedure was carried out. This is backed with zero failures of the Single Row Pro and Dual Row IMS Retrofits along with the IMS Solution.
No one is arguing with the choice of what kit to use or whether it is their choice to roll the dice on whether or not their bearing will fail. One fact for sure is that if the original bearing has started to fail or has failed, it's too late to change the bearing.
Another fact is that there are lots of things that can fail in an M96 engine, many of which result in collateral damage, including that of any engine part lubricated by engine oil.
Failure rates under warranty as produced by Porsche during the Eisen class action lawsuit point to a 8% failure rate for the single row and 1% for the dual row. Considering the IMS Retrofit has been around for almost 10 years, its track record speaks for itself.
There have been zero failures of any engine that was properly pre-qualified before an IMS Retrofit procedure was carried out. This is backed with zero failures of the Single Row Pro and Dual Row IMS Retrofits along with the IMS Solution.
No one is arguing with the choice of what kit to use or whether it is their choice to roll the dice on whether or not their bearing will fail. One fact for sure is that if the original bearing has started to fail or has failed, it's too late to change the bearing.
Another fact is that there are lots of things that can fail in an M96 engine, many of which result in collateral damage, including that of any engine part lubricated by engine oil.
8% failure on a car with an average age of 15years = 5 cars out of every 1,000 will suffer this p.a. as most porshe owners keep their car for 2-4years that equates to 15 owners per 1,000 cars p/a (I will soon be on my third 911 in 3 years, Which would have cost me say $5,000 for retro fit)
Thats 0.005 you probably have a higher chance of getting shot but you don't go out with a bullet proof vest on.
01-07-2018, 01:21 PM
#53
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Firstly you cannot say there have been zero failures of a retro fit unless you knew of every single retro fit to start with, as some retro fit cars might just end up as donor car becaues of their age, (and just look on this site for retro fit failers)
8% failure on a car with an average age of 15years = 5 cars out of every 1,000 will suffer this p.a. as most porshe owners keep their car for 2-4years that equates to 15 owners per 1,000 cars p/a (I will soon be on my third 911 in 3 years, Which would have cost me say $5,000 for retro fit)
Thats 0.005 you probably have a higher chance of getting shot but you don't go out with a bullet proof vest on.
8% failure on a car with an average age of 15years = 5 cars out of every 1,000 will suffer this p.a. as most porshe owners keep their car for 2-4years that equates to 15 owners per 1,000 cars p/a (I will soon be on my third 911 in 3 years, Which would have cost me say $5,000 for retro fit)
Thats 0.005 you probably have a higher chance of getting shot but you don't go out with a bullet proof vest on.
01-07-2018, 03:58 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Firstly you cannot say there have been zero failures of a retro fit unless you knew of every single retro fit to start with, as some retro fit cars might just end up as donor car becaues of their age, (and just look on this site for retro fit failers)
8% failure on a car with an average age of 15years = 5 cars out of every 1,000 will suffer this p.a. as most porshe owners keep their car for 2-4years that equates to 15 owners per 1,000 cars p/a (I will soon be on my third 911 in 3 years, Which would have cost me say $5,000 for retro fit)
Thats 0.005 you probably have a higher chance of getting shot but you don't go out with a bullet proof vest on.
8% failure on a car with an average age of 15years = 5 cars out of every 1,000 will suffer this p.a. as most porshe owners keep their car for 2-4years that equates to 15 owners per 1,000 cars p/a (I will soon be on my third 911 in 3 years, Which would have cost me say $5,000 for retro fit)
Thats 0.005 you probably have a higher chance of getting shot but you don't go out with a bullet proof vest on.
But this is no condolence to the small percentage of owners that have their original IMS bearing fail, thinking they were one of the lucky ones that would not have a problem. In most those instances, owners could have afforded putting in an IMS Solution, but now can't afford to have the engine rebuilt correctly. In those instances, someone usually inherits the problem, either knowingly or most often, as a surprise after having purchased the car with a terminal condition.
01-07-2018, 04:37 PM
#55
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Agreed. I cannot find fault in your logic as for some owners, they don't keep their car long enough to consider changing their IMS bearing. For most, it makes sense to wait until a clutch is needed or they are suffering from an oil leak from either the IMS or RMS. From that perspective, pulling the sump at every oil change and cutting open the filter along with shorter intervals between oil changes is the best thing to do.
But this is no condolence to the small percentage of owners that have their original IMS bearing fail, thinking they were one of the lucky ones that would not have a problem. In most those instances, owners could have afforded putting in an IMS Solution, but now can't afford to have the engine rebuilt correctly. In those instances, someone usually inherits the problem, either knowingly or most often, as a surprise after having purchased the car with a terminal condition.
But this is no condolence to the small percentage of owners that have their original IMS bearing fail, thinking they were one of the lucky ones that would not have a problem. In most those instances, owners could have afforded putting in an IMS Solution, but now can't afford to have the engine rebuilt correctly. In those instances, someone usually inherits the problem, either knowingly or most often, as a surprise after having purchased the car with a terminal condition.
People don't change piston rings so they don't scratch linings, you don't change crank cos it might snap and wreck your engine.
01-07-2018, 04:50 PM
#56
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And of course ther is the point that you could put the 1.7k towards a lower milage car or get the dual bearing one and the 1% factor, well if your worid about that failing 1% over 15 years 0.066% p/a maybe you should not be driving becaues all cars will fail at some point, So putting things in perspective your dual ome bearing is 6xmore likely to fail than you are likely to have a fatal car crash, obviously I don't want either to happen to anyone,
People don't change piston rings so they don't scratch linings, you don't change crank cos it might snap and wreck your engine.
People don't change piston rings so they don't scratch linings, you don't change crank cos it might snap and wreck your engine.
get a warranty instead don't know how much they are in US but $1700 might get you 2or3years and that covers everything (almost) including recovery.
(ps I dont bother with warranties on my cars only the manufacturers warranty on new ones)
01-07-2018, 05:18 PM
#57
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Ok I am now officially confused reading this thread has done me in. I have a 2001 996 c2 and last oil change before storing for winter had no foreign particles in the filter or filter canister. I did put in a LN magnetic plug.
Next spring I will be planning on a clutch replacement and while I am at it do the ims bearing as well. My question is what ims solution is considered the solution. Now that Porsche has got a kit do I use that or Mr. Navarro do I use yours {LN}? I forget who had a LN bearing done for $1750 and clutch replaced at $675 where the heck was that. It’s way below what I have been quoted heck I’ll drive the car there for that $2400 fix for clutch and bearing wow !
Advice and input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Next spring I will be planning on a clutch replacement and while I am at it do the ims bearing as well. My question is what ims solution is considered the solution. Now that Porsche has got a kit do I use that or Mr. Navarro do I use yours {LN}? I forget who had a LN bearing done for $1750 and clutch replaced at $675 where the heck was that. It’s way below what I have been quoted heck I’ll drive the car there for that $2400 fix for clutch and bearing wow !
Advice and input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
01-07-2018, 05:20 PM
#58
Racer
Russ will straighten you out. 
01-07-2018, 05:54 PM
#60
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Ok I am now officially confused reading this thread has done me in. I have a 2001 996 c2 and last oil change before storing for winter had no foreign particles in the filter or filter canister. I did put in a LN magnetic plug.
Next spring I will be planning on a clutch replacement and while I am at it do the ims bearing as well. My question is what ims solution is considered the solution. Now that Porsche has got a kit do I use that or Mr. Navarro do I use yours {LN}? I forget who had a LN bearing done for $1750 and clutch replaced at $675 where the heck was that. It’s way below what I have been quoted heck I’ll drive the car there for that $2400 fix for clutch and bearing wow !
Advice and input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Next spring I will be planning on a clutch replacement and while I am at it do the ims bearing as well. My question is what ims solution is considered the solution. Now that Porsche has got a kit do I use that or Mr. Navarro do I use yours {LN}? I forget who had a LN bearing done for $1750 and clutch replaced at $675 where the heck was that. It’s way below what I have been quoted heck I’ll drive the car there for that $2400 fix for clutch and bearing wow !
Advice and input would be greatly appreciated, thanks
so if you drove 1,400 996's for 1,000miles, chances are only 1 would have IMSB failure and you do the test again and 1 more would fail.
Hope this helps, but on this site everyone knows everything.
