Is more or less rubber bettter ?
10-12-2003, 07:30 AM
#1
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Is more or less rubber bettter ?
Some posters may recall the problems I have had with cracking in the rear 993 GT2 mag centred 11” rims (I am on the 3rd cracked centre). I currently have the stock hollow spokes on spacers on the car.
The GT2 rims with tyres weighed less so the unsprung weight will actually be more.
I am trying to decide what to do – ideally I would like the GT2 rims and may indeed try buying a couple of brand new rears (if they exist) in case it is the age of the second had ones which are causing the cracks ?
The car has never been tracked and I don’t intend to. My fun comes from road use and I have a few of those “special” curves (no traffic around etc) where I can hold the tail out under power in second (in the dry) using the LSD to keep it there for what feels like minutes (but more like 2 seconds) and with the stock wheels I have noticed how much easier it is to do this, with less rubber width on the tarmac, the car feels more lively with lighter steering and a more “slippy” rear end (compared to the 9” front, 11” rears of the GT2 rims).
In 1989 I had a 3.2 Carrera to which I added the then state of the art Ruf 8”x17 and 9”x17 – whilst it looked the business it made the car a pig to drive, tramlining, aquaplaning in the wet and just very “heavy” handling. I notice that Ruf only uses 8.5” fronts and 10” rears on his 993 conversions, is this to maintain the feel ?
What are other people’s thoughts on grip versus feel issue (forget the track please, I am not interested in lap times).
Please give me your views and experiences.
The GT2 rims with tyres weighed less so the unsprung weight will actually be more.
I am trying to decide what to do – ideally I would like the GT2 rims and may indeed try buying a couple of brand new rears (if they exist) in case it is the age of the second had ones which are causing the cracks ?
The car has never been tracked and I don’t intend to. My fun comes from road use and I have a few of those “special” curves (no traffic around etc) where I can hold the tail out under power in second (in the dry) using the LSD to keep it there for what feels like minutes (but more like 2 seconds) and with the stock wheels I have noticed how much easier it is to do this, with less rubber width on the tarmac, the car feels more lively with lighter steering and a more “slippy” rear end (compared to the 9” front, 11” rears of the GT2 rims).
In 1989 I had a 3.2 Carrera to which I added the then state of the art Ruf 8”x17 and 9”x17 – whilst it looked the business it made the car a pig to drive, tramlining, aquaplaning in the wet and just very “heavy” handling. I notice that Ruf only uses 8.5” fronts and 10” rears on his 993 conversions, is this to maintain the feel ?
What are other people’s thoughts on grip versus feel issue (forget the track please, I am not interested in lap times).
Please give me your views and experiences.
10-12-2003, 11:50 AM
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TB:
You are correct. A wider tire yields a muted feel. Imagine a bicycle with 225-45-21's...
But, I've found that tire size makes little difference oppposed to tire type.
S03's are going to have problems at Porsche sizes, while wide S02's are great for under 170 MPH. Narrow P-Zero's are the only tire for +170 MPH horesplay, but expect to slide around more than the S02's. Fat, high end Yokohamas are even OK if you're just fooling around with high g 40-120 MPH cornering. I've run from 255 to 335 rears, and the only bad experience I've had with stability and handling has come from tire type.
And then there's the universal answer: If your steering feels heavy, you're not going fast enough!
You are correct. A wider tire yields a muted feel. Imagine a bicycle with 225-45-21's...
But, I've found that tire size makes little difference oppposed to tire type.
S03's are going to have problems at Porsche sizes, while wide S02's are great for under 170 MPH. Narrow P-Zero's are the only tire for +170 MPH horesplay, but expect to slide around more than the S02's. Fat, high end Yokohamas are even OK if you're just fooling around with high g 40-120 MPH cornering. I've run from 255 to 335 rears, and the only bad experience I've had with stability and handling has come from tire type.
And then there's the universal answer: If your steering feels heavy, you're not going fast enough!
10-13-2003, 11:39 AM
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TB,
If you are not getting that same feeling with the larger tires, then it is time to add more HP!!!!!
I personally like the larger tires. As far as the feel on the steering with the larger wheels (and I also assume you have stiffer springs), what type of suspension do you have? Factory? Pss9? They do make thrust washer / roller bearing assembly that is added to the lower perch of the front strut on aftermarket units. This allows the spring to spin freely and giving a lighter steering feel to the car (coil is not binding between the lower and upper perches). This could help if you choose to stay with the larger tire sizes.
If you are not getting that same feeling with the larger tires, then it is time to add more HP!!!!!
I personally like the larger tires. As far as the feel on the steering with the larger wheels (and I also assume you have stiffer springs), what type of suspension do you have? Factory? Pss9? They do make thrust washer / roller bearing assembly that is added to the lower perch of the front strut on aftermarket units. This allows the spring to spin freely and giving a lighter steering feel to the car (coil is not binding between the lower and upper perches). This could help if you choose to stay with the larger tire sizes.
10-13-2003, 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by viperbob
TB,
If you are not getting that same feeling with the larger tires, then it is time to add more HP!!!!!
I personally like the larger tires. As far as the feel on the steering with the larger wheels (and I also assume you have stiffer springs), what type of suspension do you have? Factory? Pss9? They do make thrust washer / roller bearing assembly that is added to the lower perch of the front strut on aftermarket units. This allows the spring to spin freely and giving a lighter steering feel to the car (coil is not binding between the lower and upper perches). This could help if you choose to stay with the larger tire sizes.
TB,
If you are not getting that same feeling with the larger tires, then it is time to add more HP!!!!!
I personally like the larger tires. As far as the feel on the steering with the larger wheels (and I also assume you have stiffer springs), what type of suspension do you have? Factory? Pss9? They do make thrust washer / roller bearing assembly that is added to the lower perch of the front strut on aftermarket units. This allows the spring to spin freely and giving a lighter steering feel to the car (coil is not binding between the lower and upper perches). This could help if you choose to stay with the larger tire sizes.
I have a mixture of Euro Turbo S suspension, with rubber front strut mounts and Steve W's rear perches on top of PSS9s - I think my Turbo S kit includes those thrust washer/roller bearing thingys.
I have just ordered a brand new 993GT2 11x18 wheel from Porsche GB @ equivalent $1300US - so we shall see if a brand new one is up to the job
10-14-2003, 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by viperbob
WOW!!! $1300 for a wheel. I guess that is the price we all have to pay for having these awesome cars. Hopefully this wheel will hold up a little better....
WOW!!! $1300 for a wheel. I guess that is the price we all have to pay for having these awesome cars. Hopefully this wheel will hold up a little better....
Thanks for the good wishes.
I am unsure whether the 993GT2 wheel is in current production or whether the stock is from the late '90s - If it is old stock then I am wondering if the Mg content of the centre will have degraded like the other second hand wheels I have had
Regardless, all Porsche GB parts have a two year warranty so if this new wheel cracks then I want a new one
My obvious concern is of the wheel falling apart during one of my more ahem interesting manouvres
10-14-2003, 08:50 AM
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Are mag rims prone to catastropihic failure?
or progressive fractures... leading to eventual failure?
quite a scary thought either ways...
my ruf rims are probably double the standard rims weights(starting to look a little old too)...lol
at least they dont fail though
or progressive fractures... leading to eventual failure?
quite a scary thought either ways...
my ruf rims are probably double the standard rims weights(starting to look a little old too)...lol
at least they dont fail though
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10-17-2003, 01:50 PM
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An update:
Got the new 11"X18 993GT2 wheel today. The date stamp on the mag centre was 01/98 and on the rim 03/98
looks like these are original stock.
There is "Speedline for Porsche" engraved on the rim.
The colour of the centre does not match my refurbed wheels, it is more light grey/silver compared to the darker grey refurbed- I may just get one of the fronts painted the same and have a slightly different look depending on which side of the car you look at
Just somethig which interested me whilst I was at the wheel supplier, The '02 carrera thin 5 spokes have a BBS stamp on the back as do the '99 GT3 wheels - didn't know that.
Got the new 11"X18 993GT2 wheel today. The date stamp on the mag centre was 01/98 and on the rim 03/98
looks like these are original stock.There is "Speedline for Porsche" engraved on the rim.
The colour of the centre does not match my refurbed wheels, it is more light grey/silver compared to the darker grey refurbed- I may just get one of the fronts painted the same and have a slightly different look depending on which side of the car you look at
Just somethig which interested me whilst I was at the wheel supplier, The '02 carrera thin 5 spokes have a BBS stamp on the back as do the '99 GT3 wheels - didn't know that.
10-21-2003, 10:12 PM
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Personally I like more rubber! However along with performance rubber comes a wear issue...... I totaled my 993TT exactly 3 weeks after ownership. I had 3000 miles on the NEW S02's and hit water and hydroplaned so bad I lost contol. The telephone pole did the rest of the work! Alas the ride was real cool in the hellicopter. I now decide on tire selection not only by adhesion but by wear factor too! I want at least 2 years out of a set of $1200.00 tires.
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10-23-2003, 11:05 PM
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I never blacked out, now I have a little problem with airport security. Lots of titanium in the old body now.
I am also fortunate to have been able to find another one that had only 6900 miles on it and was of course "Speed Yellow" too!
CB
I am also fortunate to have been able to find another one that had only 6900 miles on it and was of course "Speed Yellow" too!
CB
10-25-2003, 01:22 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Dear TB993tt,
I have a set of brand-new, never mounted / never used set of Porsche OEM set of 993 GT2 rims, if you are interested. They are 9 x 18 (34 offset - fronts) and 11 x 18 (18 offset - rears), with the original 'Speedline for Porsche' logo on the outer side of the rim, along with the rim width and offset to the left and right og the valve seat. I really liked them and ordered / bought them for my 964 turbo 3,6 without first checking, and when I trial fitted them on the hubs they were protruding the wheelarches by about 50 mm - both front and rear!
So they are for sale, email me if you are interested - I bought them for approximately UK£2,800.
I have a set of brand-new, never mounted / never used set of Porsche OEM set of 993 GT2 rims, if you are interested. They are 9 x 18 (34 offset - fronts) and 11 x 18 (18 offset - rears), with the original 'Speedline for Porsche' logo on the outer side of the rim, along with the rim width and offset to the left and right og the valve seat. I really liked them and ordered / bought them for my 964 turbo 3,6 without first checking, and when I trial fitted them on the hubs they were protruding the wheelarches by about 50 mm - both front and rear!
So they are for sale, email me if you are interested - I bought them for approximately UK£2,800.
10-26-2003, 01:55 AM
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My best track times were with 8.5 and 10.5 wheels and 245 and 305 Hoosiers tires.
I've gone to 9s and 11s with 235 and 315 Pirelli Corsas. They look fantastic. Bigger is better, right? Apparently not. Even though the Hoosiers are faster, I get far more complements with the Corsa's on the larger BBS wheels.
I've gone to 9s and 11s with 235 and 315 Pirelli Corsas. They look fantastic. Bigger is better, right? Apparently not. Even though the Hoosiers are faster, I get far more complements with the Corsa's on the larger BBS wheels.
10-26-2003, 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by JJayB
My best track times were with 8.5 and 10.5 wheels and 245 and 305 Hoosiers tires.
I've gone to 9s and 11s with 235 and 315 Pirelli Corsas. They look fantastic. Bigger is better, right? Apparently not. Even though the Hoosiers are faster, I get far more complements with the Corsa's on the larger BBS wheels.
My best track times were with 8.5 and 10.5 wheels and 245 and 305 Hoosiers tires.
I've gone to 9s and 11s with 235 and 315 Pirelli Corsas. They look fantastic. Bigger is better, right? Apparently not. Even though the Hoosiers are faster, I get far more complements with the Corsa's on the larger BBS wheels.
Do you put the faster track times down to the Hoosier rubber being superior or is it because the car is better balanced/easier to handle with the smaller set up ?