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New 993tt RUF Turbo R Limited 600HP

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Old 03-06-2016, 05:17 AM
  #16  
TB993tt
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Originally Posted by Basal Skull View Post
I saw somewhere that the limited edition R is 500000ish euro...
You'd think they would have an secan or updated intercooler for that price!
I don't like appearing to knock Ruf but I think it is a fact that the last cutting edge engine from Pfaffenhausen was the CTR1 design, since then there's been nothing special having said that they use tried and trusted stuff.

I had some communication with them about the 991RTR but I felt it would be a major downgrade going from my current very bespoke 3.9 to Ruf's 996 based 3.8 in the RTR, I actually tried to persuade them to consider putting my engine into their RTR chassis, suffice to say they were unsurprisingly unimpressed with that idea
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Old 03-06-2016, 04:36 PM
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Looks like they are trying to compete with Singer which is a big meh for me ...

The CTR3 on the other hand continues to make me drool
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:34 PM
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I don't agree at all that Ruf is trying to compete with Singer, and also find a number of other comments in this thread and others this past week to be misinformed.

Ruf has always been a misunderstood firm outside of Europe and Japan (where the majority of their clients reside), particularly here in the U.S. I think this is due to them never having had a proper, long term, wholly-owned (instead of franchised) dealership here; also to their work being lumped together in the "tuner" category with names like Gemballa, DP and TechArt over the years.

First, understand that Ruf has been in business since 1939 and working closely with Porsches since the 60's. Singer was founded in 2009! Ruf is first and foremost an engineering firm, whose work over the years (admittedly unconstrained by the large corporate structure Porsche has) is usually a few years ahead of Porsche itself. This is lost on U.S. enthusiasts because almost all of the Ruf product here is conversion work done by their various distributors. There are very few W09 vin (meaning a factory built car) cars here, and these ground-up builds are what the firm is really all about. Their engineering and performance vs. Singer isn't comparable - Singer is a design firm (and a fantastic one) that is just now beginning to add true engineering to their cars. I've owned more than a dozen W09's going back to the 80's, in addition to every important Porsche during this time and quite a few cars from other manufacturers costing multiples of what a Ruf does. For pure performance and driving experience, I've yet to be in a car that is as good an all-arounder, no exceptions.

I think if you delve into the details of their new offerings shown in Geneva, you'll learn that as always, it is first and foremost about the engineering and resulting performance. I won't argue that the fit and finish, especially with the interior, and some of the details, are superior in a Singer, but having just been in Pfaffenhausen, I can see that they're working hard to bring that up to par with the rest of their offering. In particular to where this thread began, the Turbo R Limited should be celebrated on this forum as the holiest of grails - a brand new (these seven cars are being built from shells/chassis/blocks that Ruf bought new from Porsche in 1998 and have been saving ever since) air-cooled car infused with techology that didn't exist 20 years ago.
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Old 03-06-2016, 08:10 PM
  #19  
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Amen to that - there is real engineering excellence, heritage, and passion in the RUF cars, especially the W09s. And Alois and Estonia add another dimension to the RUF name - impressive dedication to their cars and their craft.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:44 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by secretcollector View Post
I don't agree at all that Ruf is trying to compete with Singer, and also find a number of other comments in this thread and others this past week to be misinformed.

Ruf has always been a misunderstood firm outside of Europe and Japan (where the majority of their clients reside), particularly here in the U.S. I think this is due to them never having had a proper, long term, wholly-owned (instead of franchised) dealership here; also to their work being lumped together in the "tuner" category with names like Gemballa, DP and TechArt over the years.

First, understand that Ruf has been in business since 1939 and working closely with Porsches since the 60's. Singer was founded in 2009! Ruf is first and foremost an engineering firm, whose work over the years (admittedly unconstrained by the large corporate structure Porsche has) is usually a few years ahead of Porsche itself. This is lost on U.S. enthusiasts because almost all of the Ruf product here is conversion work done by their various distributors. There are very few W09 vin (meaning a factory built car) cars here, and these ground-up builds are what the firm is really all about. Their engineering and performance vs. Singer isn't comparable - Singer is a design firm (and a fantastic one) that is just now beginning to add true engineering to their cars. I've owned more than a dozen W09's going back to the 80's, in addition to every important Porsche during this time and quite a few cars from other manufacturers costing multiples of what a Ruf does. For pure performance and driving experience, I've yet to be in a car that is as good an all-arounder, no exceptions.

I think if you delve into the details of their new offerings shown in Geneva, you'll learn that as always, it is first and foremost about the engineering and resulting performance. I won't argue that the fit and finish, especially with the interior, and some of the details, are superior in a Singer, but having just been in Pfaffenhausen, I can see that they're working hard to bring that up to par with the rest of their offering. In particular to where this thread began, the Turbo R Limited should be celebrated on this forum as the holiest of grails - a brand new (these seven cars are being built from shells/chassis/blocks that Ruf bought new from Porsche in 1998 and have been saving ever since) air-cooled car infused with techology that didn't exist 20 years ago.
Ruf have a certain profile of client, they enjoy the excellent schmoozing which Ruf offers to a high level and they appreciate the all round excellence of the cars he produces. These clients tend to not be very technical, they aren't very interested in the details of the engines, they believe they are buying the best but do not actually fully research this area and are not really interested in it as long as the car performs to a high level and generally they do. It would be interesting for a client to ask Ruf at what intake temperature the 612PS is reduced and at what ambient temperature is that reached at if on the autobahn ? Following the reply Ruf should be quizzed as to why for one's 500K Euro is one not getting Secan intercooler technology to address this issue ? The schmoozing would be ramped up to a new level under this kind of scrutiny !

In Germany a slightly different profile of client, usually people who have racing experience and through this get to know that the best Porsche engines are found at a different address not far away from Ruf. Porsche themselves if pushed will point over enthusiastic VIP clients to a different address for Porsche engine tuning.

To the 993 specifically, Ruf has never built race engines so missed out on a lot of the development which came from the GT2 era. The original 490PS Turbo R did not even have the flame rings fitted.
This new Turbo R limited edition is a gorgeous car and it is aimed squarely at Ruf's profile customers but IMO it is way short of being the holy grail of 993 turbos, even my own car which finished development in 2006 has higher tech in it (OK maybe not the turbos )

The holy grail of 993 turbos has to be the car below, this car is owned by a very wealthy enthusiast who has many cars but continues to have his 993 developed. This car is the recipient of the latest tech 4.0l 800PS street legal (in Germany) engine which is based on the GT2EVO race engines with big Secan, it can produce its 800PS even in 35C Bavarian summer.
The car has extensive lightening measures and weighs around 1350kg DIN, it wears PCCBs and the body has been re engineered with the sloped windscreen for ultra high speed - it doesn't look much in this (old) pic and you won't get any schmoozing from the engineers who created it but for those in the know, this is the 993 daddy

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Old 03-07-2016, 10:37 PM
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^
reminds me of heated discussions we've had previously

TB, any leads on the PCCB's on that blue car?
My car is at 1372 Kg with full tank and spare tire. PCCB's could help get a few more pounds off...
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Old 03-08-2016, 06:52 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Basal Skull View Post
^
reminds me of heated discussions we've had previously

TB, any leads on the PCCB's on that blue car?
My car is at 1372 Kg with full tank and spare tire. PCCB's could help get a few more pounds off...


The PCCBs are the 380mm/350mm as fitted to 997GT2/3, I'm not sure what adapters are needed to make them fit but obviously they are a pricey affair.

1372kg is impressive, are you 2WD ? I know when I was obsessed about losing the weight ditching the 4WD was a nice saving (60kg I think) taking 150kg out and retaining 4WD and street car comforts is a lot of work ?
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:36 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by TB993tt View Post
1372kg is impressive, are you 2WD ? I know when I was obsessed about losing the weight ditching the 4WD was a nice saving (60kg I think) taking 150kg out and retaining 4WD and street car comforts is a lot of work ?
Yes I'm 2wd. Still have the sunroof, AC and CD changer though.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:42 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by secretcollector View Post
I don't agree at all that Ruf is trying to compete with Singer, and also find a number of other comments in this thread and others this past week to be misinformed.

Ruf has always been a misunderstood firm outside of Europe and Japan (where the majority of their clients reside), particularly here in the U.S. I think this is due to them never having had a proper, long term, wholly-owned (instead of franchised) dealership here; also to their work being lumped together in the "tuner" category with names like Gemballa, DP and TechArt over the years.

First, understand that Ruf has been in business since 1939 and working closely with Porsches since the 60's. Singer was founded in 2009! Ruf is first and foremost an engineering firm, whose work over the years (admittedly unconstrained by the large corporate structure Porsche has) is usually a few years ahead of Porsche itself. This is lost on U.S. enthusiasts because almost all of the Ruf product here is conversion work done by their various distributors. There are very few W09 vin (meaning a factory built car) cars here, and these ground-up builds are what the firm is really all about. Their engineering and performance vs. Singer isn't comparable - Singer is a design firm (and a fantastic one) that is just now beginning to add true engineering to their cars. I've owned more than a dozen W09's going back to the 80's, in addition to every important Porsche during this time and quite a few cars from other manufacturers costing multiples of what a Ruf does. For pure performance and driving experience, I've yet to be in a car that is as good an all-arounder, no exceptions.

I think if you delve into the details of their new offerings shown in Geneva, you'll learn that as always, it is first and foremost about the engineering and resulting performance. I won't argue that the fit and finish, especially with the interior, and some of the details, are superior in a Singer, but having just been in Pfaffenhausen, I can see that they're working hard to bring that up to par with the rest of their offering. In particular to where this thread began, the Turbo R Limited should be celebrated on this forum as the holiest of grails - a brand new (these seven cars are being built from shells/chassis/blocks that Ruf bought new from Porsche in 1998 and have been saving ever since) air-cooled car infused with techology that didn't exist 20 years ago.
Interesting and the same time amazing that RUF had these shells/blocks etc brand new storaged for "decades". So bascially they are selling these 993 like a new car? I mean, are the going to be sold like a 2016 model year or what? How about certain regulations in some countries for safety and emissions controls? Well if they are sold like 97/98 model year BRAND NEW that might help with newer strict control for the safety and emissions pretty much every country has.
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Old 03-09-2016, 03:58 PM
  #25  
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wow.... the 993TT forum coming back to life... Great feedback and nice spirited conversation. Reminds me on 2012 and early 2013 before the price surge

Love singer and but would take the new Ruf Turbo R limited edition all day long. Ideally both would be in the garage... for 500k Euro would like to see a bit more. Now I am being picky but some Turbo S ducts on the rear fenders would be a nice add and wonder if any how many panels are carbon fiber.

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Old 03-11-2016, 11:55 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mickfluff View Post
wow.... the 993TT forum coming back to life... Great feedback and nice spirited conversation. Reminds me on 2012 and early 2013 before the price surge Love singer and but would take the new Ruf Turbo R limited edition all day long. Ideally both would be in the garage... for 500k Euro would like to see a bit more. Now I am being picky but some Turbo S ducts on the rear fenders would be a nice add and wonder if any how many panels are carbon fiber.
Really like what RUF did, and have always been a fan of Singer. Great attention to detail. Personally for $500k I would like to be able to completely customize my car.
One of my child hood dreams is to build a light weight, street old fashion 911.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:11 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by DiegoR View Post
Interesting and the same time amazing that RUF had these shells/blocks etc brand new storaged for "decades". So bascially they are selling these 993 like a new car? I mean, are the going to be sold like a 2016 model year or what? How about certain regulations in some countries for safety and emissions controls? Well if they are sold like 97/98 model year BRAND NEW that might help with newer strict control for the safety and emissions pretty much every country has.
I too am surprised at this - usually there is some link to the date of first registration and the regulations in effect at the time. 20 years would be a huge gap.

I looked at a Ruf Turbo R in perhaps 2012 - it transpired Ruf had taken a silver 993 turbo and made a black Turbo R out of the car. Much to my surprise it had a Ruf VIN - I never fully understood how that was possible.
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Old 03-14-2016, 01:35 AM
  #28  
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Diego/Felix, those a good points. I'm going to email Ruf Weissach in Vancouver to ask.
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Old 03-14-2016, 08:56 AM
  #29  
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That 993 looks as good as the 991 based edition!!!!...even to a layperson. What 20 y/o car anywhere for any money could pull that off? The bronze wheels look just odd enough to be stunning.
....interested in knowing the tire size b/c its so difficult to get the 19's to not look too big for the 993's.... they do look spot on appropriate.
Nice to see Ruf not rolling over but still need a US retailer.
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Old 03-19-2016, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PiB993 View Post
Damn. I wrote a detailed reply but my 'token expired' and erased everything. Okay. RB Brakes (a rennlist sponsor) offers a variety of sizes. They have one for the 996 Turbo. Willwood's website has a number of applications listed (not the 993 turbo specifically). Brembo have kits - fitment? A company called Surface-Transforms has a 996 fitment. It would be wise to understand what carbon ceramic construction they are using and where they are made. The technology has progressed a bit. If any were made in China I would question the quality. I think it might be nice to use the same calipers and just change the rotors and pads.
Complete RacingBrake Carbon Ceramic Brake System (RCCB) is now available for ordering.

http://www.racingbrake.com/RB-Calipe...ccb-por-04.htm

This brake system uses the same CCM discs as equipped in C7 ZR1 & Camaro Z28 with 394x36mm in front and 390x32mm in rear.

Surface Transforms CCM-X available as optional.

RCCB is designed for a direct bolt on installation w/o any modifications to OE upright/spindle.

Same kit is also offered for 991 GT3, GT4, 996 & 997.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...r-991-gt3.html
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