Anyone with experience with the 450 HP kits?
 

I doubt I will do this, but am curious after seeing the kit available. Gert at Carnewal has a 450 HP Factory Power Kit For P93 Turbo, it has replacement turbos, tips, oil cooler and S tips.

450-HP-Factory-Power-Kit-For-P93-Turbo

Has anyone had experience with these HP upgrades? How does impact the engine? Any driving issues (like stalling) that are normally associated with HP changes? I have 75,000 on mine, would doing this open a Pandora's box of problems?

The kit costs $15 grand before install. What would it cost to stick one of these kits on? It's factory and that always sounds good, but it is it the most economical and/or best option?

I guess finally, I know more is better in most cases, but with a 993TT, is this not the case? It has plenty of HP, isn't stock preferable?

For the most part your stock internals should be good for up to about 500 HP. Beyond that is when the added stress will take its toll on standard parts. You might want to get an adj. fpr just to be on the safe side and not let things lean out. Next step would be injectors, ignition, etc.......... Have fun

This is just the standard x50 (or whatever it was called) package that was offered for sale on new 993TTs in ROW.

K24s, ecu, and tips.

Should work fine and drive like a faster but more laggy NA turbo.

There are cheaper and quite frankly better ways to get 450bhp.

cost to install is likely $1k or so.

Yep, what they said^^ Crazy to spend $15K on that

Get it mapped by Todd, go hybrid if you want, put an oil cooler on and you will have $10K to blow on coke and hookers............

In my research....echo all above. I did protomotive ecu, 100 cell race cats, bypasses...that will do just about 450hp.

If you still feel compelled the k24s are really 90's tech. hybrids are best of both worlds/less lag.

400 to wheels Easy
 

Agreed $5k or less, Send Ecu to Todd ( 96 or 97), Rebuild 16's (16g's), 710 Diverters, Manual boost controller. Ive had at least 5 993tt's, all done a little different, This set up was easiest & VERY fast, this is a conservative loaded Dyno (probably 20% loss), I'd say 470Hp Easy on 91oct. You must set boost on Dyno in order to Tune right & check AFR's.

This specific kit was somewhat of a bargain up until recently. One of the cheapest ways of getting the K24s. But now that Porsche has doubled the prices of this kit there are much better ways of getting 450-460HP. For example the cargraphic stage 2 kit for about half the price including installation.

The car I just bought has it and the car runs great!

My advice (and remember I have a Ruf Turbo R) is to leave it stock. There are few places where 400HP isn't enough, and the small delta to 450 won't make a huge difference (except to your wallet). And while these kits all tend to be perfectly reliable... I'd stick to stock for even better reliability. But, trust me, I understand the temptation for more. And more.

yup.

I had a heavily modified cobra before the 993. while a crap load of fun, even 700rwhp became unimpressive after a while.

My opinion:

some exhaust mods
some suspension mods
and fresh maintenance (plugs, filters, diverter valves, etc) is enough.

I got lucky and got a great price on a Turbo S ecu for the supposed 424bhp.

I figure with the S ecu, 200 cell sport cats, and muffler deletes, the car makes maybe 430bhp.

Total cost for me was $2,750 (got the muffler deletes with the car, but add $600 if not)

What's the best kit to improve low end torque? By modern standards a stock 993 Turbo feels quite weak on lower revs.

Keep the revs up! :)
Remember you are dealing with old tech 8:1 compression ratio. If you don't have boost, you got nothing.

I can't understand what you are saying .....:)

supercharged ls1 conversion?

Wow guys this is great info! Thanks!

I can tell there is a lot of good info here, but I'm going to have to google this to understand it! Where is the best place to get this?

I'll look up the cargraphic and the promotive kits. Any risk of damaging the engine?

In the long run stock is probably best, but the more I read, the more tempted I am, well at least to research it and understand it.

I tried to put an Eaton type TPC supercharger in my 997.1 4S, but it wouldn't fit. I drove a 997.1 4S with a VF supercharger in it and it was terrific. In the end adding a plenum, headers, 200 cell cats and performance exhaust really opened the car up nicely. The 993TT feels so smooth and powerful stock, I'm very curious what one feels like with the HP kits.

LOL, more is better, but I mean for maintaining the value of the car.

Down the road will people turn away from a 993TT that has been modified in favor of a stock 993TT?

:icon107:

always
all things equal, most collector car buyers prefer and would pay more for a stock vehicle

Yeah it just isn't worth it. If it's unmolested best to keep it that way. I think you can "pretty them up" as long as they can go back to stock easily. Example is exhaust, steering wheel, shift knob, wheels, etc...

Best advise for P-car's if you like mods is get a 996TT and go nuts.

There will always be the risk of damaging the engine. Even with leaving it stock. But the cargraphic stage 1 and stage 2 are based on the stock K16s and in the end you are getting about 12-16% HP increase. So that risk is very limited. To be on the safe side you could opt for installing the additional oil cooler. For the stage 1 kit cargraphic germany themselves found the additional cooler not necessary. Biggest bonus is probably the much nicer exhaust note you get with these kits.

This is where I'm always at. To much is just enough. That pretty much pertains to just about everything, except work. :-)

:)
Yes: if enough is good and more is better then too much should be just about right......

Wrong X50 has k16 and 430 HP or Werksleistungsteigerung short WLS I
my 97 was delivered with X50 and 1 year later was upgrated with 450 Hp kit
what we called here in Germany WLS II

car has now 40k miles since then and run great, maybe with turbolag, but here on the Autobahn you can feel the difference
maybe is not the Money worth but they are rare and sought after

I Echo the few sane ones on here - Mellor et al….

Horsepower is like Ti77ies and cash……

You can never ever have too much…..

I went the Protomotive route as well. 16/16g hybrids, ECU, 5 bar fpr, 710 DV's, electronic boost controller and I couldn't be happier. In recent months the car got a complete motor rebuild(it has 71k miles) and I added 3.8RS cams, upgraded retainers and valve springs etc and 100 cell Cats and I had thought I was happy with it before, now I ecstatic. Like others have said HP is addictive but what is nice is knowing there is a hard limit of HP for the stock internals so Ive just realized you can't got further w/o spending BIG $$$ an that helps subside that addiction. Now I'm moving on to more suspension mods hahaha.

In the end he cars feel really nice with a 100 more HP. For point of reference I recent had the car out at Willow Springs and while running 100octane an 1.1bar I was hitting 151 down the front straight. I was able to hang with a 997 Cup(yes a real Cup car not a modded GT3) down the front straight....but then it was gone lol. The track day is a whole other experience that I need to write in a new thread as the ol girl did pretty good.

So the 16/16g added 100HP?

Please do post a thread about tracking/DEing your 993. I loved DE's in my 997, but am afraid to put my 993TT in a track.

^ why would you be afraid of taking the car to the track, it's the only place you can actually drive the thing.. I think most would say our cars do pretty well at DE's (for average drivers). Even stock/better shocks can easily keep up with 996 gt3/early 997's/non modded 996 turbos. To keep up with the modded 996 turbos/stock 997turbo's/997 gt3's you need bolt on engine upgrades/aggressive alignment. Need quite a bit of suspension upgrades to keep up with 997.2 gt3/RS (but could still hang with them on the straights). Suspect I will be able to catch than my friends with newer cars with the engine upgrade this year (not that I couldn't last year :cool: ..). I don't spend enough time at the track to be a good driver and I won't be able to keep up with the modded (suspension) 997.2 RS in the corners but should do better in the straights. Hp is a great equalizer. You just have to be really careful with how you apply the loud pedal!

I guess I'm more worried about damaging this car than my 997. I felt the 997 was more disposable. Depreciating asset vs appreciating asset. I am also concerned I won't be able to handle the car as well as the 997. I just need more time with the 993TT to build my confidence. The 997 really handled superbly.

The comment about getting a 996TT and moding it for the track is one I've thought about for awhile.

yup a 996TT is the cheapest way to get massive power in a p-car virtually the same as 997 power levels without the high cost of entry.

but b/c of this getting an unmolested 996TT now is becoming as rare as 993tt.

Used 996TT by now usually have jet engines or solid rocket boosters strapped to em.... often installed by shade tree mechanics with their trousers down around their knees.

^ true. But don't seem to see many 996 turbos on the track recently. Occasionally well sorted/modded/fast 996 gt3, but 996 turbo is uncommon. I think due to the lower entry cost a lot of the younger street scene guys are in these cars.

Hell yes, the track is possibly the best place to learn where your (and your cars) limits are at. You surely don't want to find out in the middle of some public road (possibly in a collision avoidance maneuver) with a bunch of mutants around you. Start at a track that has some run out, just in case, then build up to more challenging courses. I only drive about 75-80% on the track because I still love my car and want to have it forever. But even at those levels I'm able to keep in the mix with a lot of cars that are set up for serious track work. It's great to catch the momentum cars (that pull ahead in the turns) in the straights through sheer power. :cheers::cheers::cheers:

I'm looking at which oil cooler set up to use. Protomotive offers a set up where two coolers are welded together and the oil is diverted by 50% to run through both coolers at the same time. Meaning half the oil runs through one side and half runs rough the other side. The other option is Patrick Motor sports offers a RS Engine Oil Cooler System, that places a second oil cooler in the left side fender like the RS. The oil runs in series through the first cooler and then through the second cooler. The benefit of the parallel system is it's "drop in" and should help reduce pressure as the 50% of the oil goes through each cooler. (although, line pressure immediately resumes as the oil reunites in the line as it comes out of the cooler.) The benefit of the series system is that the oil is first cooled through the first stock cooler and then cooled again through a second cooler before returning to the engine. Because the coolers are located in different positions in the car, that the RS series set up should provide the most thermo advantage in cooling the oil. I am leaning to the RS series oil cooler. Any thoughts?

The only thing I can think of is with that many miles there may be an issue with the bottom end. When stacking 50 more horsies on top may cause trouble, might not!

I recommend the GT2/RS factory left fender mounted full bay cooler. Cargraphic or RUF offers decent pricing on the kit.

Make your own!
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=28499

I did the RUF oil cooler, good fit and works well.

I also did the Protomotive 16G, ECU, Boost controller, 5bar FPR, and it works very well.

I am wondering if my diverter valves are right?

Can someone please explain to me the benefit of the 410 Diverters vs stock? Where do you buy 410 diverters?

Do you mean 710N diverters?

If so, they are a factory upgraded bosch product available at your local vw/audi dealer for about $50 each IIRC

Thanks for info.

So, do I understand correctly that the 710N diverter is a VW/Audi part and not a Porsche part?

btw,I read the "410" in the #6 post.

Hey Don,

I have done quite a bit of work to my car...

Mufflers, 100 cell cats, shifter, PSS10, turbo rebuild hybrid, and work on the engine management system. See the chart attached, plenty of oomph and I don't think that I need anymore now that it is at this level.

Absolutely no affiliation with these folks. They have also worked on my '10 GT3

Jax


Attachment 815539

Attachment 815540

710's
 

My mistake, you can find em' a lot of places $50 each, That particular car didn't have an extra cooler, ran fine in AZ, was street use though.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/710N/ES581/

Thanks
They are a lot less $ than the Porsche DV's.

Hi!

Thanks, by work on the engine management system, am I correct that you mean remap of the ECU? Did you add an additional oil cooler?

I am totally impressed!!

So I should pick one up?

Thank you!

Where do you order from Cargraphic or RUF? Will the be preferable to those from Patrick Motorsports?

Thanks!

Dang it, you're setting yourself to be able to tell me "I told you so!" I truly get the impression that this is not pushing the engine that hard. Am I mistaken?

How many miles did you have on your 993 TT when your did the upgrade? How many do you have on it now? Any issues? Stalling or problems?

No, pick 2 up!

Yes a remap of the ECU, a little more complicated, and I did not add an additional oil cooler at this point.

Jax

710's
 

Need 2, Just do what's in my first post, you'll be fine.

Todd did not mention a manual boost controller. Where do you place the manual boost controller? Once the boost is set ii it meant to be left alone or played with depending on how you are driving?

Does the 993 TT have a viscous coupler too? How do I find a Dyno shop that can work with the viscous coupler? When you say must set boost on a dyno, I have not been able to find a dyno in Denver that can work with AWD 911. I had a 997.1 before and the viscous couple was the reason that I could net get the car dynoed.

Is your 470HP number at the crank or at the wheel? Also Todd said I would get 60 to 80 HP increase from the ECO plus 50 HP from the turbos or a total increase of 110 to 130HP from 408, going to a range of 518 to 538HP. Your 470 is much lower than he has stated, but given you have done 5 so far, I suspect you have it pretty hard wired.

538bhp.......................Todds been smokin................

Did you convert your turbos? If so what do you think you gained in HP?

That would 538 HP at the crank.

That's right. At 1.2 bar, 100oct gas with the 16/16G hybrids that's not an unrealistic number. Rare911 has done that and has the dyno graphs to prove it. At .9bar on 91oct at 5600ft where you are it's not going to make that much. But it should still be 100 more fwhp than what you have today and that difference is all that matters.

You can dyno our cars on a Mustang Dynometer(its a Brand of dyno) safely. Or you can unhook the front wheel drive...it's about 30-60mins worth of work. I've not done it myself but that's what I was told. Then you just hook it back up when you done.

40k miles, now 48k miles

Protomotive 16g package with Greedy electronic boost controller works very well.
My Boost settings = stock 0.8 / 0.9 and 1.1 barg, it will lift your skirt!
Boost controller is hidden and accessible in ashtray, really slick
Just be sure to have the kit installed by an experienced shop!!!

Oil cooler only needed if you plan to track or use hard in very hot ambients
I also installed RS sways and PSS10's.
Techart fogs with active brake cooling ducts and Turbo S frt spoiler

While I'm not expert at P-cars, I agree with this ^^

Mine is a RoW spec and came from factory with X50 430 HP package with a bunch of Turbo S goodies.

Later I found my car had from the begining of it's life in it's final desination (country) the 450 HP kit offered by Porsche (k24's Turbo S RoW ecu and oil cooler was factory installed/ordered).

Never driven another 993tt specially with the K16 turbos, but mine feels laggy, once the boost comes, you get a punch in your chest against the seats.

I would also look at FVD power kits for the 993TT. I installed essentially that kit and while a bit more lag than the K16's, the power improvement and fun factor was well worth the investment. Just ask the guy in the 430 Challenge car that couldn't catch me. Have fun....

sorry, he needs to be a better driver.