halik

Haaah, best line ever. He was sideways more often than straight.

Nautilus

I don’t mean to start another GTR vs Porsche debate because it has been done many many times before in so many threads in so many car forums since the GTR was released; I think everybody agrees that the Nissan is great value for money... you may not be able to exploit that performance over as many laps as with the Porsche but great great bang for the buck.

I think the point here is that for people like us who love 993s it is nice to see one matching the performance of a modern tuned GTR. To be honest I would get the same excitement if it was the CTR2 vs say a 997tt, a Ferrari 458 or any other modern car. Of course that does not mean very much as far the cars real performance because what we see in the video depends on each driver capabilities, the tyres, etc and actual attitude of each of the guys to go for it or not but, as I said, it makes me happy to see the RUF overtaking the Nissan.

On the other hand I am actually quite curious because from what I have been reading on this forum about the CTR2 I’ve got the impression that in spite of its exclusivity (only 30 were manufactured) and cost, it is somehow a flawed car that did not delivered as expected because the intercooler arrangement did not performed much better than the stock 993tt set up and, as a result, the power rating for the standard CTR2 was 520 hp (you get 490 hp from the much cheaper RUF Turbo R). With that in mind I wonder how the RUF got passed the Nissan at the end of the straight--- I am assuming the GTR to be around 600 hp (like yours) and with much better aero.

Cheers.

carmstrongls1

This will beat a GTR too.

Just saying lol.

owen meany

I got passed by a pickup truck at Sonoma raceway. There's just no telling who is behind the wheel with what experience and intention. Doesn't mean much in my mind to see one car passing another at a track day. It just doesn't speak to the capability of the cars themselves.

Felix

I think all the "standard" Ruf 993tt engines are in the 520 bhp range - the 490 figure is quoted for tax reasons? If you look at the published power curve it's been artificially flattened to 490 bhp.

Then there's the "sport" engine quoted at 580 bhp - I think this is the one that's definitely constrained by the CTR's twin intercooler arrangement. LAT on here had a CTR-2 with that engine and saw IATs of 40 deg C above ambient under load - that's in the range where the Motronic pulls the boost.

Also posted by LAT was the below article extract for the 520 bhp variant based on what I thin are K26 turbos with external wastegates. Note how the stock 408 and 430 cars have better 5th and 6th gear acceleration figures - I think this is called lag.

Tokyo Joe

That is Fuji Speedway and that is the same car for sale...nice vid, thanks for sharing

pstoppani

Looked like both drivers were quite fast and both likely had a good time; who cares what they were driving...

Nautilus

Thanks for the info Felix.
This is the first time I see the CTR2 performance figures actually tested by a magazine... is it Auto, Motor und Sport? Is the whole article available?

I did not know that the turbo R package actually pumps up to 520 hp. So basically you are saying that both the turbo R and the CTR2 engines are around 520 hp or that all CTR2 engines actually provide more than the official 520 hp (maybe 580 hp as per the sport version)? My understanding from what I’ve read in different threads here is that the Turbo R employs K16 based hybrids whereas, like you say, the CTR2 is based on K26s so I would expect the CTR2 engine to have more power (but more lag, as per the figures you showed above).

Finally I wonder if the CTR2 intercooler set up makes any difference. I really like the idea of the side mounted arrangement and trying to take advantage of the engine cooling fan to draw more air through them... I would really like to know if this system performs any better than the stock.

Many thanks again for the info.

Felix

I only have that extract I'm afraid - sorry. Pretty sure it was Auto, Motor und Sport.

I'm hardly a Ruf expert; others on here know much more than me. According the Marc Bongers' book the CTR-2 engine was quoted at 520 bhp and the CTR-2 sport at 580 with both running a TAGtronic management system. As best I can tell the sport engine was still single plug and 3.6 litres so 580 bhp is quite a claim.

The Turbo R runs motronic and in Marc's book is quoted at 490 bhp. That said I have seen engine dyno graphs for a Turbo R engine and it was making over 520 bhp. So perhaps the Turbo R engine evolved early on or perhaps it was always understated a bit?

As for the intercooler location that's difficult to evaluate. It's not clear how much Ruf chose their location for marketing/appearance and how much on improved performance. Marc quotes a top speed of 329 for the Turbo R and and AMS measured a CTR-2 at 330 so it wouldn't appear that aerodynamics were playing a big role. The gearing is almost certainly different so a direct comparison may be meaningless.

carmstrongls1

Seems as if the CTR2 projects were more along the philosophy of the CTR3. About manufacturing a complete in your face functional package. The performance stats being a byproduct of the recipe. Some of the sport type cars were well into the 700 HP range when they hit the track. Like the yellow one that is currently at RAC in Dallas. The turbo r cars were aimed at conversion customers. Two different tastes completely. I'm not discounting either cars capabilities. Just pointing out the different market aim.

Id be more than happy with either one in my stable.

niche

My turbo r was rated 520 hp from ruf. Ctr2 must be more.

Mark993TT

On paper it's 490 vs 520.

993Godspeed

That CTR was hauling the mail!!

LAT

There is no way a CTR2 would come close to a tuned GTR, not in power or suspension. The fact is a tuned 993tt would be as fast if not faster and definitely more stable. The CTR2 is a handful at speed.

BTW I think the GTR is butt ugly and would not ever put one in my garage but I have give credit where due.

goofballdeluxe

Re: this Porsche vs. GTR debate...

Say these phrases out loud, and tell me which you're drawn to:

"I drive an old Porsche". "I drive a new Nissan".

Go for the one you think works for you best