What is it worth-993TT, 93K miles?
11-02-2011, 01:40 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
What is it worth-993TT, 93K miles?
I just wanted some thoughts on a 96 Polar Silver TT I am looking at. The car has 93K miles. The owner is the third and he has all receipts since purchasing the car 5K miles ago with no documented history prior to that. He did a top end rebuild at 88K miles. The ad for the car had it listed for $55K CDN. As many of you know there is a bit of a price premium for these cars in Canada
I really wasn't considering purchasing the car because of the mileage, and price, which I thought was high, but as I wanted to keep my options open I decided to view it. I went and looked at the car last week and the exterior/interior looks very good. No rust around windows, no obvious oil drips in garage, which is spotless. Window seals look almost new. Only very minor flaws in the paint, nothing I couldn't live with. The car does NOT have hard back seats and sits at SUV height. The owner wanted to keep the car original.
As I said I really didn't examine the car too carefully as I wasn't considering purchasing the car at that price. The owner was a really nice guy so I felt OK in sending him an email stating that although the car looked very good the price he was asking seemed a little high to me given the mileage. I told him I would have thought the car should have been listed for around $50K and consider taking $47K for the car. Obviously that was just my opinion. I may have been way off base but that is what I thought the car may bring.
He sent back an email thanking me for my input and stating that he took no offense to my anything in my email. He also asked where I had seen the ad and how much the car was listed for in the ad. I gave him that information ($55K CDN in that ad I saw) and he responded back that he had lowered the price of the car to $50K but it hadn't been reflected in the ad (maybe that is why he was not offended by my input).
Now I am thinking more about purchasing the car. Other cars I have seen advertised are more expensive, as they should be. Examples for cars in the US would be in the range of $55-$65K US with mileage in the low 60's. Many of these would be available in colours that I find much more appealing (Arena Red, Guards Red, Black) but there is a bit of a premium for these colours. To purchase one of those and get it to my driveway would cost me more in the range of $63-$73K CDN. When I look at a car, with higher mileage, that I might be able to purchase for $47K CDN, it looks much more appealing.
I did a search on this forum on higher mileage TT's. Some would suggest that once a car hits 85K miles the value drops like a stone. I would imagine it would drop even more over 100K miles. If I were to purchase the car I would probably keep it for five years and sell it. I won't need it, or the expenses the car may incur, in retirement.
I put 5K miles per year on my NA 993. If I did the same with the TT I would be selling it with about 118K miles. I am just wondering in my mind how much further the price would drop in five years with the extra mileage. Would the car have already taken the big hit mileage? Would I be able to sell it in five years for $30-$35K CDN? Would the increased mileage and age make the car take a huge hit in dollars five years down the road? I know these are not easy questions to answer, and to be honest I don't really expect any answers.
I may be looking through optimistic eyes as I find the 993 TT to be the best looking car Porsche ever produced. To me, if the price were right, the savings of purchasing a lower priced car with the extra miles would go a long way in paying for other consumables, necessary repairs and of course, the slippery slope. But I would also listen to the input provided by more knowledgeable people on this form. Objective input is more valuable to me than my own slanted perspective.
Of course I would get a thorough PPI including leak down and compression.
I would appreciate any thoughts you would have on the price, mileage, etc.
Thanks
I really wasn't considering purchasing the car because of the mileage, and price, which I thought was high, but as I wanted to keep my options open I decided to view it. I went and looked at the car last week and the exterior/interior looks very good. No rust around windows, no obvious oil drips in garage, which is spotless. Window seals look almost new. Only very minor flaws in the paint, nothing I couldn't live with. The car does NOT have hard back seats and sits at SUV height. The owner wanted to keep the car original.
As I said I really didn't examine the car too carefully as I wasn't considering purchasing the car at that price. The owner was a really nice guy so I felt OK in sending him an email stating that although the car looked very good the price he was asking seemed a little high to me given the mileage. I told him I would have thought the car should have been listed for around $50K and consider taking $47K for the car. Obviously that was just my opinion. I may have been way off base but that is what I thought the car may bring.
He sent back an email thanking me for my input and stating that he took no offense to my anything in my email. He also asked where I had seen the ad and how much the car was listed for in the ad. I gave him that information ($55K CDN in that ad I saw) and he responded back that he had lowered the price of the car to $50K but it hadn't been reflected in the ad (maybe that is why he was not offended by my input).
Now I am thinking more about purchasing the car. Other cars I have seen advertised are more expensive, as they should be. Examples for cars in the US would be in the range of $55-$65K US with mileage in the low 60's. Many of these would be available in colours that I find much more appealing (Arena Red, Guards Red, Black) but there is a bit of a premium for these colours. To purchase one of those and get it to my driveway would cost me more in the range of $63-$73K CDN. When I look at a car, with higher mileage, that I might be able to purchase for $47K CDN, it looks much more appealing.
I did a search on this forum on higher mileage TT's. Some would suggest that once a car hits 85K miles the value drops like a stone. I would imagine it would drop even more over 100K miles. If I were to purchase the car I would probably keep it for five years and sell it. I won't need it, or the expenses the car may incur, in retirement.
I put 5K miles per year on my NA 993. If I did the same with the TT I would be selling it with about 118K miles. I am just wondering in my mind how much further the price would drop in five years with the extra mileage. Would the car have already taken the big hit mileage? Would I be able to sell it in five years for $30-$35K CDN? Would the increased mileage and age make the car take a huge hit in dollars five years down the road? I know these are not easy questions to answer, and to be honest I don't really expect any answers.
I may be looking through optimistic eyes as I find the 993 TT to be the best looking car Porsche ever produced. To me, if the price were right, the savings of purchasing a lower priced car with the extra miles would go a long way in paying for other consumables, necessary repairs and of course, the slippery slope. But I would also listen to the input provided by more knowledgeable people on this form. Objective input is more valuable to me than my own slanted perspective.
Of course I would get a thorough PPI including leak down and compression.
I would appreciate any thoughts you would have on the price, mileage, etc.
Thanks
11-02-2011, 01:50 PM
#2
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I am not as up to date on what our cars are really worth, but given the recent engine rebuild and the fact that the car appears to be decent, I would think $50k is in the ball park.
Have an inspection done and see if the car checks out. To me the premium paid for low milage cars unless the car will be kept low milage is not worth it. These cars are meant to be driven not as pictures to hang on the wall....
My 2 cents........
Have an inspection done and see if the car checks out. To me the premium paid for low milage cars unless the car will be kept low milage is not worth it. These cars are meant to be driven not as pictures to hang on the wall....
My 2 cents........
11-02-2011, 02:56 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Mike-that is my current state of mind as well. I know it wouldn't be a collector item down the road.
But I would still only put about 5K miles on the car due to road conditions here in the winter. I would drive it periodically to keep batteries charged (mine and the car). The other idiots on the road concern me as well. We get a fair amount of black ice and periodic snow in the winter. I drove my C4 in the snow and it handled very well, especially with snows on it. Other drivers in those conditions....not so well.
I also do a lot of driving in the winter commuting to work, 500 km a week. Those commutes are done under the same driving conditions and I have to move equipment back forth to work. The amount of space in the car precludes moving that equipment so that is a no-go. So it simply won't be a DD throughout the whole year. Worst case scenario is that I would have a big grin on my face for 5K miles per year.
But I would still only put about 5K miles on the car due to road conditions here in the winter. I would drive it periodically to keep batteries charged (mine and the car). The other idiots on the road concern me as well. We get a fair amount of black ice and periodic snow in the winter. I drove my C4 in the snow and it handled very well, especially with snows on it. Other drivers in those conditions....not so well.
I also do a lot of driving in the winter commuting to work, 500 km a week. Those commutes are done under the same driving conditions and I have to move equipment back forth to work. The amount of space in the car precludes moving that equipment so that is a no-go. So it simply won't be a DD throughout the whole year. Worst case scenario is that I would have a big grin on my face for 5K miles per year.
11-02-2011, 03:02 PM
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Mike-that is my current state of mind as well. I know it wouldn't be a collector item down the road.
But I would still only put about 5K miles on the car due to road conditions here in the winter. I would drive it periodically to keep batteries charged (mine and the car). The other idiots on the road concern me as well. We get a fair amount of black ice and periodic snow in the winter. I drove my C4 in the snow and it handled very well, especially with snows on it. Other drivers in those conditions....not so well.
I also do a lot of driving in the winter commuting to work, 500 km a week. Those commutes are done under the same driving conditions and I have to move equipment back forth to work. The amount of space in the car precludes moving that equipment so that is a no-go. So it simply won't be a DD throughout the whole year. Worst case scenario is that I would have a big grin on my face for 5K miles per year.
But I would still only put about 5K miles on the car due to road conditions here in the winter. I would drive it periodically to keep batteries charged (mine and the car). The other idiots on the road concern me as well. We get a fair amount of black ice and periodic snow in the winter. I drove my C4 in the snow and it handled very well, especially with snows on it. Other drivers in those conditions....not so well.
I also do a lot of driving in the winter commuting to work, 500 km a week. Those commutes are done under the same driving conditions and I have to move equipment back forth to work. The amount of space in the car precludes moving that equipment so that is a no-go. So it simply won't be a DD throughout the whole year. Worst case scenario is that I would have a big grin on my face for 5K miles per year.
11-02-2011, 04:04 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks Quadcammer. I respect your opinion as I have seen lots of your posts and they are always informative.
I am surprised about what you perceive to be the value of your car but I have nothing to really compare it to. I don't have access to information on what higher mileage TT's are selling for. I have seen one for sale recently with what I remember to be in the 125K mileage range and they were asking low $50's. Although my memory isn't what it used to be! And that car may be for sale for quite some time.
Thanks for your input.
I am surprised about what you perceive to be the value of your car but I have nothing to really compare it to. I don't have access to information on what higher mileage TT's are selling for. I have seen one for sale recently with what I remember to be in the 125K mileage range and they were asking low $50's. Although my memory isn't what it used to be! And that car may be for sale for quite some time.
Thanks for your input.
11-02-2011, 05:17 PM
#7
Race Director
Thanks Quadcammer. I respect your opinion as I have seen lots of your posts and they are always informative.
I am surprised about what you perceive to be the value of your car but I have nothing to really compare it to. I don't have access to information on what higher mileage TT's are selling for. I have seen one for sale recently with what I remember to be in the 125K mileage range and they were asking low $50's. Although my memory isn't what it used to be! And that car may be for sale for quite some time.
Thanks for your input.
I am surprised about what you perceive to be the value of your car but I have nothing to really compare it to. I don't have access to information on what higher mileage TT's are selling for. I have seen one for sale recently with what I remember to be in the 125K mileage range and they were asking low $50's. Although my memory isn't what it used to be! And that car may be for sale for quite some time.
Thanks for your input.
$43k might be a little low, but so many people want low mileage garage queens, that the high mile cars either sell fairly cheap or take forever to sell.
May $48k max.
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11-02-2011, 05:46 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Quad-Bad moods are acceptable..it is the interweb!
At any rate, even if I purchased a car like yours for $48K US and had to import that car to Canada, pay a 6.1% duty, shipping fees from NJ (the car I am looking at is local), exchange fees on converting CDN to US dollars, I would be way in excess of $48K CDN.
That gives me another data point to refer to. Thanks again.
I hope your mood improves
.
At any rate, even if I purchased a car like yours for $48K US and had to import that car to Canada, pay a 6.1% duty, shipping fees from NJ (the car I am looking at is local), exchange fees on converting CDN to US dollars, I would be way in excess of $48K CDN.
That gives me another data point to refer to. Thanks again.
I hope your mood improves
.
11-02-2011, 06:29 PM
#9
Drifting
I agree in the $45-47K range, thats pretty good value considering it just had the top end done at 88K miles. Like you said we pay a bit of premium in Canada. I would buy the car within your budget to enjoy, as opposed to thinking too much about it's re-sale value X years down the road.
There is also a black/black TT for sale on Van Island, I believe it has 135K kms and asking was low 60s. I have not seen the car so I can't comment on the condition etc. However if gives you a good reference point.
Good luck!
There is also a black/black TT for sale on Van Island, I believe it has 135K kms and asking was low 60s. I have not seen the car so I can't comment on the condition etc. However if gives you a good reference point.
Good luck!
11-02-2011, 06:30 PM
#10
Pro
Bret,
Last yr I paid US$53K for mine with 53K miles on it. Car in fairly good shape, but I have spent over $10K getting it to the condition I wanted. It's not just what you pay now, but what you need to pay AFTER the fact! A good PPI will help you decide - if nothing needs to be done and it's in excellent mechanical condition, $45-50K, what does it matter? If it needs $10K of work, different story. Uhh... if you're looking for an investment vehicle, try a GIC, as you'll lose dough on this no matter what :-)! Buy it and enjoy it! Like one of the members on this forum aptly said one day (in response to a bunch of folks afraid to drive their car for fear of depreciating it), "It's like having a beautiful girlfriend and never sleeping with her, so she's untarnished for the next guy". Like THAT would ever happen! LOL. Best of luck.
Last yr I paid US$53K for mine with 53K miles on it. Car in fairly good shape, but I have spent over $10K getting it to the condition I wanted. It's not just what you pay now, but what you need to pay AFTER the fact! A good PPI will help you decide - if nothing needs to be done and it's in excellent mechanical condition, $45-50K, what does it matter? If it needs $10K of work, different story. Uhh... if you're looking for an investment vehicle, try a GIC, as you'll lose dough on this no matter what :-)! Buy it and enjoy it! Like one of the members on this forum aptly said one day (in response to a bunch of folks afraid to drive their car for fear of depreciating it), "It's like having a beautiful girlfriend and never sleeping with her, so she's untarnished for the next guy". Like THAT would ever happen! LOL. Best of luck.
11-02-2011, 07:25 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks Knight. I haven't seen that one for sale. Can you provide a link?
I found the ad for your new car after you had already negotiated an offer for it's purchase but prior to you taking it to Mike's. Mike said it is a beautiful car. Congratulations on your purchase. But I hate you for getting it before me
. We actually met last year at Mike's BBQ. Hopefully he has another one next year. I would look forward to seeing your car.I would hope the PPI would rule out the big stuff. At least that is what I would be counting on. Leaves some $$ for the "slope"
11-02-2011, 07:41 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
The TT I am considering has been "driven" but that is OK by me. I will take "seconds".
Last edited by 95C4VanIsle; 11-02-2011 at 08:50 PM.
11-03-2011, 02:02 AM
#15
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Hi Bret,
Yes, interesting question about mileage. Problem is, there are not that many high mileage turbos around, and being sold, so its hard to set a price for sure. I think at $45K it would be a steal with a clean PPI, and then you can drive the heck out of it. With the top end done, the worry is more around what is happening outside the engine - drivetrain, brakes, transmission, all rotating parts. However, these cars are very hardy and overbuilt, and I now you are not one to beat the crap out of the car, so you are unlikely to break something if its not already to break, and a PPI should pickup most of those (but not all!).
Cheers and best of luck!
Mike
Yes, interesting question about mileage. Problem is, there are not that many high mileage turbos around, and being sold, so its hard to set a price for sure. I think at $45K it would be a steal with a clean PPI, and then you can drive the heck out of it. With the top end done, the worry is more around what is happening outside the engine - drivetrain, brakes, transmission, all rotating parts. However, these cars are very hardy and overbuilt, and I now you are not one to beat the crap out of the car, so you are unlikely to break something if its not already to break, and a PPI should pickup most of those (but not all!).
Cheers and best of luck!
Mike