Dyno of 700+whp Protomotive/Kelly Moss build
09-27-2011, 09:58 PM
#1
Dyno of 700+whp Protomotive/Kelly Moss build
Many thanks to Todd at Protomotive and the guys at Kelly Moss for rebuilding and retuning the engine on my 993tt. The engine has much more power under the curve and will be great for the track.
The engine is now sporting Tial Alpha 28 turbos, meth/water injection, a new bottom end, and a Protomotive exhaust system (thanks vincentdds!).
It will be going back later for more tuning as the current setup is limited by not enough fuel from the fuel pump and the clutch slipping (we're rushing to get the car on track before winter sets in).
The max the engine produced was 705rwhp/710rwtq which will be improved with the new pump and clutch.
Here's the conservative dyno runs. The new setup is the solid lines, old setup the dashed lines.
The engine is now sporting Tial Alpha 28 turbos, meth/water injection, a new bottom end, and a Protomotive exhaust system (thanks vincentdds!).
It will be going back later for more tuning as the current setup is limited by not enough fuel from the fuel pump and the clutch slipping (we're rushing to get the car on track before winter sets in).
The max the engine produced was 705rwhp/710rwtq which will be improved with the new pump and clutch.
Here's the conservative dyno runs. The new setup is the solid lines, old setup the dashed lines.
09-28-2011, 04:19 AM
#7
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Good to see your car back in shape Brad. You seem to have finally followed the right approach and rebuilding the whole thing from scratch for a well balanced package, I am sure it was expensive but will be worth it in the long run.
The difference between before and after is huge, I don't recall what turbos you had before but these GT28 seem to be an excellent size for this application in view of the overall torque band. Back in the day Jussi used them on his monster engine and I was inclined to do the same for street drivability but Todd thought they would not flow sufficiently/efficiently at the top end..
I honestly am skeptical about these peak numbers, but without more information about the turbo sizing, boost levels, intake, cam changes and compression used I won't comment.
What have you done to your car otherwise at Kelly Moss, any track specific modifications? Did you go lightweight?
Post some more pictures of your car and the engine bay!!
Congrats.
The difference between before and after is huge, I don't recall what turbos you had before but these GT28 seem to be an excellent size for this application in view of the overall torque band. Back in the day Jussi used them on his monster engine and I was inclined to do the same for street drivability but Todd thought they would not flow sufficiently/efficiently at the top end..
I honestly am skeptical about these peak numbers, but without more information about the turbo sizing, boost levels, intake, cam changes and compression used I won't comment.
What have you done to your car otherwise at Kelly Moss, any track specific modifications? Did you go lightweight?
Post some more pictures of your car and the engine bay!!
Congrats.
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09-28-2011, 07:32 AM
#8
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I am interested in how long these engines last at this power level. Lets pretend it is 700hp at the flywheel not the wheels.
Porsche used the big Secan and tried various oil cooling solutions to keep temperatures in the green and the Motronic boost controlled cars could adjust their boost to vary the power (ie reduce it) if the temperatures got too hot. Even with all the factory strategy the engines needed expensive rebuilds at 20 hours due to the heat (mostly I think ?) with oval cylinders and warped heads being the consequence of this much power through this type of engine.
I understand that on these fixed boost motors the ECU cannot reduce the boost so if anything the engine will be even more vunerable to track hours. I believe Jean used to run with less noost ~1 bar and around 600hp at the track and experienced good longevity at this level ?
Have there been any big advances ? Do these new blowers deliver must less heat into the motor ?
I understand that for a street/drag motor this engine will do the business but it is for the track so what are the new tricks to keep 700hp pumping for a good while in a 993tt ?
BTW congrats and thanks for sharing
Porsche used the big Secan and tried various oil cooling solutions to keep temperatures in the green and the Motronic boost controlled cars could adjust their boost to vary the power (ie reduce it) if the temperatures got too hot. Even with all the factory strategy the engines needed expensive rebuilds at 20 hours due to the heat (mostly I think ?) with oval cylinders and warped heads being the consequence of this much power through this type of engine.
I understand that on these fixed boost motors the ECU cannot reduce the boost so if anything the engine will be even more vunerable to track hours. I believe Jean used to run with less noost ~1 bar and around 600hp at the track and experienced good longevity at this level ?
Have there been any big advances ? Do these new blowers deliver must less heat into the motor ?
I understand that for a street/drag motor this engine will do the business but it is for the track so what are the new tricks to keep 700hp pumping for a good while in a 993tt ?
BTW congrats and thanks for sharing
09-28-2011, 09:08 AM
#9
I think its waaay more fun when you have a lot less HP and are faster than the guys who think they're fast bc their car has a lot of HP. The track isnt about drag racing down the straights.
09-28-2011, 09:27 AM
#10
Instructor
I am interested in how long these engines last at this power level. Lets pretend it is 700hp at the flywheel not the wheels.
Have there been any big advances ? Do these new blowers deliver must less heat into the motor ?
I understand that for a street/drag motor this engine will do the business but it is for the track so what are the new tricks to keep 700hp pumping for a good while in a 993tt ?
BTW congrats and thanks for sharing
Have there been any big advances ? Do these new blowers deliver must less heat into the motor ?
I understand that for a street/drag motor this engine will do the business but it is for the track so what are the new tricks to keep 700hp pumping for a good while in a 993tt ?
BTW congrats and thanks for sharing
as for any big advancements, that meth injection has come a loooong way in the past few years. I know of one very good friend of mine running it on his 965 and I cant believe how well it works. I'm considering trying it to keep the temp down. I don't see it as a system that any factory would use in pro racing but for what most of us that just use our cars as DE cars or some weekend racing, I cant see why not?
Last edited by biiig-hp; 09-28-2011 at 10:05 AM.
09-28-2011, 11:04 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Great to see everything finally worked out Brad!
Is the car still with Todd? Have him log your IAT's with the water/meth so you can show everyone your delta to redline
Better hurry up before your engine rusts away!!!!!!
Is the car still with Todd? Have him log your IAT's with the water/meth so you can show everyone your delta to redline
Better hurry up before your engine rusts away!!!!!!
09-28-2011, 07:10 PM
#14
Thanks for the kind comments and great observations. The car will be running hard at road america in about 48 hours so I'll have more information on how this setup performs. Will order a Davtron unit to measure IAT's asap. Still running the same suspension just w/ more toe in up front as the car apparently was too darty.