993TT to Gallardo
06-14-2011, 05:13 PM
#16
The 993tt properly set up is to me still one of the best drivers cars out there. I think that is the key though - I think an out of the box 993tt leaves a bit to be desired. But with Evo Uprights, erp monoballs, PSS9/10 stiffenend up, 2wd conversion, and 490-500hp ecu tune with bigger turbos and an extra oil cooler make for an amazing driving experience. You will never get the sound out a boosted flat 6 as you will a V anything, but other than that - you get so much soul, such driver feedback etc, connection with the road. I have driven the Lambos & the the 430 (430 Scud). I think the 430 is an awesome car - very precise and when in Race mode allows a good degree of slip angle. It makes driving fast on the track so easy for even those with little experience. I loved the sound of the Lambo - but driving and handling left me wanting. I have also driven the 430 scud, & the 599 on track - and I LOVED flogging the 599, yes its big and heavy, but the power is massive and it is still tremebdously responsive.
But for you, I think the Lambo is great, you are a single guy and if you want this as a weekend car that you can take on dates etc. it will fit the bill. This car will get you lots more attention, from women & law enforcement alike. It will also be 9X as likely to get keyed in your neck of the woods. But I think that comes with the territory and these are not cars you can leave unattended like porsches. I don't love convertibles, but I would take a F355 or a Gallardo Spyder just because you can hear their lovely sounds so much better & be seen so much easier - which is the only reason to have either one IMO
People say the 993tt is at the bottom of the depreciation curve, I somewhat agree, but if you drive it like I do mine (even though I overmaintain the ____ out of it) more miles = less resale $. I would say probably less than the Lambo but I think both are still depreciating assets.
But for you, I think the Lambo is great, you are a single guy and if you want this as a weekend car that you can take on dates etc. it will fit the bill. This car will get you lots more attention, from women & law enforcement alike. It will also be 9X as likely to get keyed in your neck of the woods. But I think that comes with the territory and these are not cars you can leave unattended like porsches. I don't love convertibles, but I would take a F355 or a Gallardo Spyder just because you can hear their lovely sounds so much better & be seen so much easier - which is the only reason to have either one IMO
People say the 993tt is at the bottom of the depreciation curve, I somewhat agree, but if you drive it like I do mine (even though I overmaintain the ____ out of it) more miles = less resale $. I would say probably less than the Lambo but I think both are still depreciating assets.
06-14-2011, 05:24 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I have been through a few Porsches in my time though never owned a 993TT. I still have a 993 C4S however. Have also had a 911 3.2, a 964 C4, 996TT, and the last car which I had that would run circles around 993 TTs at the track around corners and on the straights was my 997 GT3RS. But for value retention a 993TT will be the better car. And I'm sure a well modified 993TT would be great. But it just isn't special enough compared to a G.
I currently run a 2008 Gallardo Superleggera. Not the garden G, but similar enough. All I can say is that the handling and power of the G compared to the 993 is night and day. The 993 is a lovely car but definitely its age is showing. Its like a soggy biscuit in standard form. The Gallardo is amazingly capable and has great power for an NA car.
Also getting into it and just cruising in it is an event in itself. Sitting in the cabin and starting the thing up just makes me smile. I don't even need to be going fast. Add an LOC exhaust and you will laugh out loud at cold start, though the neighbors will kill you. And at full throttle.... well if you like the sound of F1 cars, this will make you wet your pants.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNr7NaHjWUk
If you can only take one, I would give up the 993 in a heart beat for the G.
I currently run a 2008 Gallardo Superleggera. Not the garden G, but similar enough. All I can say is that the handling and power of the G compared to the 993 is night and day. The 993 is a lovely car but definitely its age is showing. Its like a soggy biscuit in standard form. The Gallardo is amazingly capable and has great power for an NA car.
Also getting into it and just cruising in it is an event in itself. Sitting in the cabin and starting the thing up just makes me smile. I don't even need to be going fast. Add an LOC exhaust and you will laugh out loud at cold start, though the neighbors will kill you. And at full throttle.... well if you like the sound of F1 cars, this will make you wet your pants.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNr7NaHjWUk
If you can only take one, I would give up the 993 in a heart beat for the G.
06-14-2011, 05:50 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
Oh yes, all of my ex cars were manual. Never thought I would say it but I love the E-Gear in my SL. It really is great fun and far more analog than the (amazing though too smooth) GTR that I used to have. And for longevity, all you need to do is slap in an aftermarket kevlar clutch and you are set.
Or if you track heavily, just throw in a Tilton and not worry about changing the clutch for quite a while.
You just need to get used to the technique of shifting the E gear which is to lift off the accelerator as you would a manual to get a smoother gear change.
Or if you track heavily, just throw in a Tilton and not worry about changing the clutch for quite a while.
You just need to get used to the technique of shifting the E gear which is to lift off the accelerator as you would a manual to get a smoother gear change.
06-14-2011, 05:56 PM
#21
Race Director
Thread Starter
The 993tt properly set up is to me still one of the best drivers cars out there. I think that is the key though - I think an out of the box 993tt leaves a bit to be desired. But with Evo Uprights, erp monoballs, PSS9/10 stiffenend up, 2wd conversion, and 490-500hp ecu tune with bigger turbos and an extra oil cooler make for an amazing driving experience. You will never get the sound out a boosted flat 6 as you will a V anything, but other than that - you get so much soul, such driver feedback etc, connection with the road. I have driven the Lambos & the the 430 (430 Scud). I think the 430 is an awesome car - very precise and when in Race mode allows a good degree of slip angle. It makes driving fast on the track so easy for even those with little experience. I loved the sound of the Lambo - but driving and handling left me wanting. I have also driven the 430 scud, & the 599 on track - and I LOVED flogging the 599, yes its big and heavy, but the power is massive and it is still tremebdously responsive.
But for you, I think the Lambo is great, you are a single guy and if you want this as a weekend car that you can take on dates etc. it will fit the bill. This car will get you lots more attention, from women & law enforcement alike. It will also be 9X as likely to get keyed in your neck of the woods. But I think that comes with the territory and these are not cars you can leave unattended like porsches. I don't love convertibles, but I would take a F355 or a Gallardo Spyder just because you can hear their lovely sounds so much better & be seen so much easier - which is the only reason to have either one IMO
People say the 993tt is at the bottom of the depreciation curve, I somewhat agree, but if you drive it like I do mine (even though I overmaintain the ____ out of it) more miles = less resale $. I would say probably less than the Lambo but I think both are still depreciating assets.
But for you, I think the Lambo is great, you are a single guy and if you want this as a weekend car that you can take on dates etc. it will fit the bill. This car will get you lots more attention, from women & law enforcement alike. It will also be 9X as likely to get keyed in your neck of the woods. But I think that comes with the territory and these are not cars you can leave unattended like porsches. I don't love convertibles, but I would take a F355 or a Gallardo Spyder just because you can hear their lovely sounds so much better & be seen so much easier - which is the only reason to have either one IMO
People say the 993tt is at the bottom of the depreciation curve, I somewhat agree, but if you drive it like I do mine (even though I overmaintain the ____ out of it) more miles = less resale $. I would say probably less than the Lambo but I think both are still depreciating assets.
I think you've got a very nicely set up 993TT that works very well for your needs as a track *****. I've had a very heavily modified car and I'm just not ready to go there again. Also, for track weekends, a 993 will be much cheaper than the G.
My car is near stock with only minor suspension, engine/exhaust mods. It is not the beast that some of you guys have.
I like the looks of the 430, but not the interior. Little weak on the torque for my tastes as well.
Like I mentioned, the lambo does not have the same feedback from the steering. But as was mentioned, it has a bit more specialness to it, more outrageous looks, and a more exotic exhaust note. Don't get me wrong, its not the perfect car, but I'm not sure if one exists. I'm really not sure if long term its the right choice for me, but the prices are falling and i'm considering certain options.
I'm not looking for attention (hence the subdued color) or to use it as a "oh wow look at me ballin" car. In nyc, a gallardo isn't blowing anybodies skirt up too high as you know
I like them cause of how they look and how they drive. That V10 is fun. I don't mind leaving it unattended or having it get scratched. Its a car, it happens. Insurance fixes it and I go about my way. the car will be garaged most of the time, so I'm not hatefully worried.
I like the 355 too, but i cannot afford all the major problems on those cars.
My car has too many miles to be worth much on resale, but you are 100% correct that the lambo will continue to lose value.
06-14-2011, 09:24 PM
#22
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I sold my 993TT and bought an F430. The 993TT drives like the box the F430 came in. As it should being considerably older. I seriously considered the G before buying the F430 but there are a few reasons why I went with the Ferrari.
1) The F430 interior when properly optioned looks like a proper 200K interior. The Lambo looked likes it was designed by GM. No matter how well it is optioned it looks cheap. Switches are goofy and it looks dated.
2) The F430 has much better resale value. The only disadvantage to this is you can buy a two year newer G for even money.
3) Performance is on par both are excellent in this department but I liked the sound of the V8 better than the V10.
4) I pre-apologize for this one, but here in the NJ/NY it seems everytime I meet a G owner they act like a corvette owner with money. Always hooning around.
4) That being said I am selling the F430 to get a 997GT2. The F430 is too flashy and is not my style. I seem to be driving my 964T more often than the Ferrari.
Craig
1) The F430 interior when properly optioned looks like a proper 200K interior. The Lambo looked likes it was designed by GM. No matter how well it is optioned it looks cheap. Switches are goofy and it looks dated.
2) The F430 has much better resale value. The only disadvantage to this is you can buy a two year newer G for even money.
3) Performance is on par both are excellent in this department but I liked the sound of the V8 better than the V10.
4) I pre-apologize for this one, but here in the NJ/NY it seems everytime I meet a G owner they act like a corvette owner with money. Always hooning around.
4) That being said I am selling the F430 to get a 997GT2. The F430 is too flashy and is not my style. I seem to be driving my 964T more often than the Ferrari.
Craig
06-15-2011, 09:32 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
I sold my 993TT and bought an F430. The 993TT drives like the box the F430 came in. As it should being considerably older. I seriously considered the G before buying the F430 but there are a few reasons why I went with the Ferrari.
1) The F430 interior when properly optioned looks like a proper 200K interior. The Lambo looked likes it was designed by GM. No matter how well it is optioned it looks cheap. Switches are goofy and it looks dated.
2) The F430 has much better resale value. The only disadvantage to this is you can buy a two year newer G for even money.
3) Performance is on par both are excellent in this department but I liked the sound of the V8 better than the V10.
4) I pre-apologize for this one, but here in the NJ/NY it seems everytime I meet a G owner they act like a corvette owner with money. Always hooning around.
4) That being said I am selling the F430 to get a 997GT2. The F430 is too flashy and is not my style. I seem to be driving my 964T more often than the Ferrari.
Craig
1) The F430 interior when properly optioned looks like a proper 200K interior. The Lambo looked likes it was designed by GM. No matter how well it is optioned it looks cheap. Switches are goofy and it looks dated.
2) The F430 has much better resale value. The only disadvantage to this is you can buy a two year newer G for even money.
3) Performance is on par both are excellent in this department but I liked the sound of the V8 better than the V10.
4) I pre-apologize for this one, but here in the NJ/NY it seems everytime I meet a G owner they act like a corvette owner with money. Always hooning around.
4) That being said I am selling the F430 to get a 997GT2. The F430 is too flashy and is not my style. I seem to be driving my 964T more often than the Ferrari.
Craig
06-15-2011, 10:23 AM
#24
I thnk the G would make for a great toy, its definitely a conversation piece, and as you heard there is little that compares to that sound. It is defintely more flashy and maybe it won't cost as much as an F car to maintain, but it will still be far more than the 993tt. Part of the reason I love the TT is that porsche people recognize it as the last of the real porsches and generally the best looking one ever produced. You can argue about which is faster here or there, but I know that nobody would ever quip that my car is a sogggy biscuit. And on the track it comes down to the driver soooo much more than the car until you are at a professional race level. There isnt a trackday I have been to where I've had to point anyone by since I sold my 930. Recently at WGI I was getting point bys from 997gt3 RS', an ex 24daytona 996 Cup car, and numerous other cars that should be able to run circles around me. I constantly have people coming up to me and telling me they thought they had a fast car until I went by them. But really its not the car so much. I was 10 seconds a lap faster than an '06 G superleggera at NJMP's thunderbolt - which is like eons - literally lapping a guy every 9 or 10 laps.
If you roll out of the 993tt & into the lambo, its not like its an irreversible trade. If you dont like the lambo sell it and buy something else. Just make sure while you have it, you bring it to a track day with me so you can feel what I properly set uup 993tt is like - and I can get more video of lapping people in lambos. And seriously, if you're buying a lambo please buy a Green, Orange, or Yellow one - getting a subtle color completely defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
If you roll out of the 993tt & into the lambo, its not like its an irreversible trade. If you dont like the lambo sell it and buy something else. Just make sure while you have it, you bring it to a track day with me so you can feel what I properly set uup 993tt is like - and I can get more video of lapping people in lambos. And seriously, if you're buying a lambo please buy a Green, Orange, or Yellow one - getting a subtle color completely defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
06-15-2011, 11:10 AM
#25
Race Director
Thread Starter
I thnk the G would make for a great toy, its definitely a conversation piece, and as you heard there is little that compares to that sound. It is defintely more flashy and maybe it won't cost as much as an F car to maintain, but it will still be far more than the 993tt. Part of the reason I love the TT is that porsche people recognize it as the last of the real porsches and generally the best looking one ever produced. You can argue about which is faster here or there, but I know that nobody would ever quip that my car is a sogggy biscuit. And on the track it comes down to the driver soooo much more than the car until you are at a professional race level. There isnt a trackday I have been to where I've had to point anyone by since I sold my 930. Recently at WGI I was getting point bys from 997gt3 RS', an ex 24daytona 996 Cup car, and numerous other cars that should be able to run circles around me. I constantly have people coming up to me and telling me they thought they had a fast car until I went by them. But really its not the car so much. I was 10 seconds a lap faster than an '06 G superleggera at NJMP's thunderbolt - which is like eons - literally lapping a guy every 9 or 10 laps.
If you roll out of the 993tt & into the lambo, its not like its an irreversible trade. If you dont like the lambo sell it and buy something else. Just make sure while you have it, you bring it to a track day with me so you can feel what I properly set uup 993tt is like - and I can get more video of lapping people in lambos. And seriously, if you're buying a lambo please buy a Green, Orange, or Yellow one - getting a subtle color completely defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
If you roll out of the 993tt & into the lambo, its not like its an irreversible trade. If you dont like the lambo sell it and buy something else. Just make sure while you have it, you bring it to a track day with me so you can feel what I properly set uup 993tt is like - and I can get more video of lapping people in lambos. And seriously, if you're buying a lambo please buy a Green, Orange, or Yellow one - getting a subtle color completely defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
Can you post your mod list btw?
Also, I kind of disagree with the bolded part. I don't like the loud colors, and since I'm not looking for a ton of attention, I prefer the subdued colors.
Last edited by Quadcammer; 06-15-2011 at 11:54 AM.
06-15-2011, 11:22 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
I thnk the G would make for a great toy, its definitely a conversation piece, and as you heard there is little that compares to that sound. It is defintely more flashy and maybe it won't cost as much as an F car to maintain, but it will still be far more than the 993tt. Part of the reason I love the TT is that porsche people recognize it as the last of the real porsches and generally the best looking one ever produced. You can argue about which is faster here or there, but I know that nobody would ever quip that my car is a sogggy biscuit. And on the track it comes down to the driver soooo much more than the car until you are at a professional race level. There isnt a trackday I have been to where I've had to point anyone by since I sold my 930. Recently at WGI I was getting point bys from 997gt3 RS', an ex 24daytona 996 Cup car, and numerous other cars that should be able to run circles around me. I constantly have people coming up to me and telling me they thought they had a fast car until I went by them. But really its not the car so much. I was 10 seconds a lap faster than an '06 G superleggera at NJMP's thunderbolt - which is like eons - literally lapping a guy every 9 or 10 laps.
If you roll out of the 993tt & into the lambo, its not like its an irreversible trade. If you dont like the lambo sell it and buy something else. Just make sure while you have it, you bring it to a track day with me so you can feel what I properly set uup 993tt is like - and I can get more video of lapping people in lambos. And seriously, if you're buying a lambo please buy a Green, Orange, or Yellow one - getting a subtle color completely defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
If you roll out of the 993tt & into the lambo, its not like its an irreversible trade. If you dont like the lambo sell it and buy something else. Just make sure while you have it, you bring it to a track day with me so you can feel what I properly set uup 993tt is like - and I can get more video of lapping people in lambos. And seriously, if you're buying a lambo please buy a Green, Orange, or Yellow one - getting a subtle color completely defeats the purpose of having one in the first place.
I have many friends running the Carrera Cup series (and some driving older 996 cup cars) that do their shake down off season testing at some of our track days, and they would never be overtaken by anything on the track- and would still fend off a well driven Radical to boot.
So your comparison of your 993TT to other cars is a bit misleading given you appear to have way above average driving skills.
06-15-2011, 02:07 PM
#27
I can tell you that a properly set up, properly driven cup car will never be overtaken by a typical street set up 993/996/997- the cornering and braking abilities together with the full slicks absolutely will run circles around even a brand new 997 GT2.....
So your comparison of your 993TT to other cars is a bit misleading given you appear to have way above average driving skills.
So your comparison of your 993TT to other cars is a bit misleading given you appear to have way above average driving skills.
But what you find at track days is an amazing inverse relationship with respect to the price of the car and skill of the driver. My point is, that you can set up the 993tt well and once you learn how to drive it, the car is extremely rewarding to drive and can hold its own in lesser drivers in almost anything out there today on a road course.
I think whats important here is that the lambo G, is a very capable car, its built like an audi, has a lot of street presence, makes an awesome sound, and is a hoot to drive. That is why I say if you like it for those reasons, I think the way to do it... is to get a spyder and get a loud color and enjoy it for all of those reasons as well.
I toured the Ferrari, Maserati, & Lamborghini over a long weekend trip to Italy and there is a precision to everything at the Ferrari factory, precision from the Ferrari factory gave way to an aura of loudness at the lambo factory (despite the polar differences between production lines for the Murci & Gallardo)
06-15-2011, 02:21 PM
#28
Stock K24's and a Manthey Racing tuned ecu that I bought off RL. That is it as far as the motor - Internals & IC are stock.
cargraphic aux oil cooler.
straight pipes,
5bar FPR
cf tower strut brace
PSS9's re-vavled for 1000lb r 650f lb springs(a touch lower than RS height)
Evo uprights
erp monoballs all around
solid motor mounts
bigger adjustable sways front & rear
2wd conversion
DAS Roll bar
race buckets
Hoosier R6 275f 315r wrapped on BBS e88s
-2.5 f camber, -2 rear
euro f & r bumpers (headilght washer delete)
Just under 3K lbs
That's all I can think of off top of my head.
cargraphic aux oil cooler.
straight pipes,
5bar FPR
cf tower strut brace
PSS9's re-vavled for 1000lb r 650f lb springs(a touch lower than RS height)
Evo uprights
erp monoballs all around
solid motor mounts
bigger adjustable sways front & rear
2wd conversion
DAS Roll bar
race buckets
Hoosier R6 275f 315r wrapped on BBS e88s
-2.5 f camber, -2 rear
euro f & r bumpers (headilght washer delete)
Just under 3K lbs
That's all I can think of off top of my head.
06-15-2011, 02:24 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
I know a number of guys with Gallardo's and they all love them! Never heard a complaint. The worst thing I heard was last week when one guy said he wants to sell his (it's really nice by the way) to get a Murci.
I'm sure you would love it.
I'm sure you would love it.
06-15-2011, 02:46 PM
#30
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You are right, I did get a bit off topic. But anyway, a Gallardo in every way is better than a 993TT. 993TT is classic in design but as a driver it does not compare.