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Go back to 3.6TT engine or fix Protomotive 3.8TT twin plug beast?

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Go back to 3.6TT engine or fix Protomotive 3.8TT twin plug beast?

 
Old 01-11-2011, 04:44 AM
  #1  
Jean
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Default Go back to 3.6TT engine or fix Protomotive 3.8TT twin plug beast?

Hello all..haven't posted much lately but I keep on eye on the board every once in a while

I have a dilemma as to what to do with my 3.8Ltr Twin-plug 993TT/GT2 car and would be thankful to hear some opinions. The board is not as hardcore as in the past I think, but nevertheless knowledge is much higher as time passes, so hoping to have a debate or hear some opinions.

Background: Refreshed this engine's bottom end at a Porsche dealership and refreshed and re-surfaced the heads with new (upgraded) guides, springs etc.. and piston rings before a racing season, but due to a mechanic's error in connecting pressure/vaccuum lines, the engine overboosted to 1.8 Bar and detonated. He also did not replace a damaged oil hose that I had asked him to, so oil dripped on the header wraps, soaked them, and the car caught fire :-) (see avatar)

Car has been parked in a garage for over a year since they took the engine out, didn't have the energy to fix it...But I am back!

Now wondering what to do. It has 2 P&Cs damaged (3.8ltr Mahle), and a couple of heads as well. I also need to buy a few parts such as a harness because it melted in a few places. Might buy a new set of Garrett turbos at once as well.

Option 1: The right way to do this is to replace all 6 P&Cs (Mahle 3.8 Ltr) with new ones and buy a set of heads and twin plug them. This could get expensive, but definitely recommended I think.

Option 2: Just buy a set of 3.6 P&C and heads and go milder. I would have to change turbos (Too big for 3.6ltrs) and maybe camshafts (currently GT2) etc..

Option 3: Buy a a stock 3.6 TT engine in good condition, and drop it there. Sell my current engine "as is" in the US for someone else to rebuild it, as I dont have space to keep a spare one at home. In that case would there be any interest ?

I am not intending to use my 993TT for racing, nor do I need the monster power anymore. Pity is that I spent a fortune on upgrading the chassis, and custom downforce and CF body parts from Germany and the US, and driving it with a stock engine would be almost an insult :-)

Should I just sell the whole car, I still have all the stock parts almost?

I have not spoken to any engine builders (incl. Protomotive) still for their opinion, I would love to hear some comments here first.. I would be happy to answer any questions, can't cover all details in this post

Last edited by Jean; 01-11-2011 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:47 AM
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malcolmd
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Hey, Jean. It's great to see you on the board again. For many who have frequented rennlist over the years, you are a legend! Firstly, you have been an amazing source of knowledge, and you have always been willing to share your vast experience. I and many others have benefitted from your assistance both with posts on the board as well as personal and private communications. Secondarily, you (and Toby) championed the notion of quantifying engine performance and the real benefit of performance modifications dismissing the often gratuitous HP claims frequently touted by tuners. And thirdly, and relevant to your post, is the fact that you developed the most amazing car that we all wished we owned! Performance that made even the exotic look slow, and looks to die for. And to top it off, you let her rip, wiping the field from the track! Legend indeed!

Now the wolf comes to the flock for advice! What an honour!

Whilst option 1. is what I'd want to hear had happened down the road - simply to satisfy my need to know that such a car still existed, I'd have to state the obvious....

Although you live in Middle East, I think I'd be safe to assume that it is not a case of "money is no object" and therefore you would have to carefully define your goals, needs and direction before committing a large sum to the rebuilding process. Questions like "What will you do with the car?". "If you are going to race again, will it be with such a car, or will it be with another specific model so as to meet a given vehicle class?" "If racing is out and you just garage the car for Sunday jaunts, can you actually use all that power on a public road?" "Do you love the car for its looks and its history, or do you love it because what it has become?" "Is the ferocious power that you love?"

Although my experience is well short of yours, I will still make the observation that the more I have done to the car, the less I have enjoyed driving it on the street and the more I have enjoyed driving it hard and fast at the track.

So, my 5c: If you need a track car, and the 993tt (GT2) can be accommodated in a class of racing you enjoy, I think you will be disappointed with anything less than what you had. On the other hand, if you're driving/racing direction is elsewhere i.e. another vehicle required like GT3/Cup etc. then I'd think carefully about the budget and maybe head toward a more stock car that you can drive in some comfort whilst still enjoying the beautiful body and good looks. Also consider the quality of local expertise. Unless you plan on sending the engine to Germany or the US for the rebuild, are the locals up to the task of both the build as well as the maintenance.

Cheers.
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:40 AM
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Jean - welcome back and +1 on Malcolm's comments in his first paragraph. I'd be inclined to go option 1 just because it goes with the state of prep of the rest of the car. But that's just me.

good luck
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:16 PM
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Need you ask me?
Option 1 of course. It's the Jean-Mobile!
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:24 PM
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^^ I agree with Scott. Don't think you'd like the result if you did anything else. Failing that ... sell it and move on. In the end it's just a car.

And welcome back; things haven't been the same around here without you.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:32 PM
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Bradford
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Hi Jean, sorry we never caught up when you came to So Cal.

I see you now have a 997 GT2....NICE! Impressions?

Option #1 would be the only choice.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:34 PM
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Jean, option #1., Buy a set of Nickies cylinders, with some J&E's pistons (quality on them has gone way high), get a set of used heads(they are available from time to time), or get a set of billet heads from 9M (Colin) and you are set!, don't give up on your passion! cheers amigo.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:05 PM
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Hi Jean
I also think option #1 is best. Especially when your already have the expensive chasis setup to handle the power. Why not just send it back to Protomotive for rebuild?
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:37 PM
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Hello Jean
Welcome back amico.
All the above can't be wrong, option #1 of course.
Feedback on the GT2 would appreciated.
I've gone to the other side with an engine behind my head. Unfortunately it snowed the weekend after I got it home so it will a few months before I get to use it.
I can't see myself without an air cooled however if I had to only have one.
Ciao for now
Levino
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by malcolmd View Post
Hey, Jean. It's great to see you on the board again. For many who have frequented rennlist over the years, you are a legend! Firstly, you have been an amazing source of knowledge, and you have always been willing to share your vast experience. I and many others have benefitted from your assistance both with posts on the board as well as personal and private communications. Secondarily, you (and Toby) championed the notion of quantifying engine performance and the real benefit of performance modifications dismissing the often gratuitous HP claims frequently touted by tuners. And thirdly, and relevant to your post, is the fact that you developed the most amazing car that we all wished we owned! Performance that made even the exotic look slow, and looks to die for. And to top it off, you let her rip, wiping the field from the track! Legend indeed!
+993! Great to see you back.

Tough one. From an emotional standpoint, I'd say the car deserves nothing other than option 1. The car is legendary...at least in this forum. From an dollars and cents standpoint, it may make more sense to part it out if you want to sell anyway (although I hate the thought of it). Fixing with option 1 and then selling it sounds like the right thing to do for the car and the incoming buyer but not for you or your wallet. What are you moving on to?
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:55 PM
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hal m
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Jean,

Sorry to hear about this situation. Your car was an amazing example to all of us!

However, if you are done racing her, it would not seem to make sense for you to spend the money to rebuild her. I would sell her to someone who wants to put it all back together and use for the intended purpose.

My question is that given the mistakes made by the mechanics, why can't you get them to pay for the repairs?

Best of luck either way
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:00 PM
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Regardless, do Num: 1.

If you then decide you don't want it you'll get more selling a complete working car; You'll probably decide to keep it and thank me....
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:00 PM
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+1 on all of Hal's feedback.

Get the shop to fix the car and sell it; sounds like your are done with it.
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:40 PM
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Al Pettee
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No question-option #1 only, then start tuning the GT2.

It makes no sense to downgrade the engine, especially when you'll have to downgrade all the other components you upgraded. Of course, when it comes to tuning, I'm a bit biased....
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:49 PM
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#1. Certainly. then see how you feel about the car.
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