Jussi

Here is something to speak !

So some people like Jxxn,Txxy,Kxxxn, and so on has been debating with me about my 500kw engine's absurd boost pressures.. and how my engine will kaboom with so-called fixed boost problem, lose power, or something else.
I made few tests and achieved many times above 250 and also two times above 280 km/h and never got any power fading problem, overboost pressures, extremely high temps (max IAT was 44 degree, outside 10 degr.), etc.

so these pictures have been dedicated to them

*)
*) from same run




But of course there are more heat than for example RS tuning's 520hp car ,
because the more you boost, the more power you get and also more heat.. - simple physics' law..

If somebody can borrow his Secan IC, I'll promise to make reliable back-to-back comparison in 500kw test bench

TB993tt

An RS Tuning 520 tt, like a Ruf tt and an UMW stage 2tt is a balanced properly tuned package which works to the limit of the stock intercooler.

My guess is that you are over the limit of any air/air intercooler with the heat you are producing in your package (like I said before the FULLY built 650hp 993GT2 racers with big $30K Secans only ran at 1.2bar). You are 34DegC over ambient by 5900rpm in 6th and that is after reving up through the gears to only 6400rpm.

If you tried that on that 29DegC day which you had the other day, then at 280kph you would be at ~63DegC which (on my engine ECU programming at least) is approach the temperature of of maximum timing retard at 70.5DegC - so be careful on that airstrip

By definition you do not have DIN 500KW since this is measured at 20DegC and at 5900rpm in 6th you would (again with my ECU programming) be losing ~4.5 degress of timing which would cost you around 60hp. By your maximum power at 6500rpm (if your motor can make it there without pulling all boost/timing limiter) you will be even hotter, so the DIN 500KW (Porsche hp) is a myth....

My guess is that even with a Secan you would have to run closer to 1.1bar at peak power to maintain full timing with your components and stock CR which would put you around 560 DIN Porsche hp

Having said all the above, you are accelerating very fast there -congratulations on achieving what you set out to

Jussi

I have done also these IAT tests when was warmer. I don't remember what was accurate temps but I wrote about that somewhere this forum.. but anyway I remember that OAT was about 24 and when accelerating slowly to 240km/h, there was about 48 degree IAT..

So my point is that stock IC is good but of cource Secan is better. If you have power enough you can still push all that air mass (=power) though stock IC and even that cause little warmening, it still have massive power to use.
But think, TB, if I had that Secan in my system..

And those other tests - like for example 5.5s 4th from 100-200kmh, was done at 20 degree. Yesterday I got same 5.5s with 4th from 100-200kmh and was 10 degrees.

TB, you are very stubborn guy.. but now you at least started to speaking about DIN Porsche hp.. so that is a good start when leaving that RS or Porsche hp story behing

btw. power measurements can be also converted to DIN values with temp and air pressure correction. and that correction from 10 degree to 20 degree isn't big, something about 0.983

And thanks for your congratulations.. now you have started also behave like Porsche people should

TB993tt

The reason why I may appear "stubborn" is that the issue of "tuner hp" is one that has fascinated me for many years, one on which I have spent a lot of money and even more time and, whilst you are without doubt a very intelligent scientific guy, you are being somewhat simplistic in the way you "throw around" your power numbers.

The subject is much more complicated than you think it is and your insistance that there is "only one type of hp" (whilst of course being scientifically correct) is not true for the real world, it is all in the measuring...

With all due respect, from what you say in your posts you are FAR from understanding what DIN Porsche hp is and as I said before a $30K Secan would not be able to control the heat your 1.3bar is producing....

Here is a question for you:
When establishing DIN torque numbers for their turbo charged engines when the engines are held under load at peak power for 30 seconds, what do Porsche do for intercooling, what temperature air do they have blowing through the cores of the intercoolers (if at all), what temperature air do they introduce as inlet air into the air filter, and on which air temperatures do they work out the relevant DIN CF for the final torque outputs ?

Jussi

Here are RAW horsepower calculations from AX data.
Now, everybody can pick what ever hp they want,
there are plenty of choices..
nice little hps if some like..
but also big american style ones
I still prefer that 490kw (from chassis dyno) or 500kw(road test dyno) categoria - haven't quite decided yet either

TB993tt

What sort of mess do you think the 1 minute loaded dyno run below would make of your 500KW
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FAKST_z2JX8

Jussi

I was playing with AX today and found that power output thing just now..
So, I filled all "Vehicle Options" as they are in real life.
Then I "Re-Process All Data" and got following chart:

Is that realible measurement? Jean? TB? somebody else?

and because I have "only".. lets say.. 560 "Porsche hp" or 620 "american hp" or whatever xxx hp and got that chart,
could you Jean for example display your chart with same kind of acceleration test with these parameters (speed, kw) ?
I know that you don't want to share your data (with me).. but show,
at least your run that I and everybody else can have conseption what these all mean..

Felix

If I'm reading the graph correctly it's saying that you have between 490 and 530 kW. That's 657 to 710 hp. I think something's not right...

Jussi

Why do you think so?

TB993tt

Here is my 500KW engine also

Jussi

Show also 6th gear that how well your engine keeps that power level..
But your 500kw was done with 2WD..
Could you also put your graphs in little bigger version..

Jean

It works better with an RPM pick up. You need to set the right smoothening filter, in my experience 0.3-0.5 seconds works ok.

These are decently accurate in the measurement of before and after modifications rather than as absolute numbers. When numbers increase with speed (higher gears) it means your drag coefficient and rolling resistence are too aggressively set. Positive Lift on these cars at high speed would overstate HP the same as if you were reducing the drag coefficient.

Jussi

Now is your turn to give out your corresponding AX result
Please, let us compare and learn something..

Jean

I told you, 423BHP and 10 s... stop trying, it will not work.

Jussi

Yes yes, I believe you but check that Protomotive car, I believe that it doesn't have that +700hp..


btw. When we were debating about those RPM vs speed calcs... I found somebody who is in my side