Gruppe M air intake
07-09-2003, 11:31 AM
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Gruppe M air intake
The importers of the 993GT2 Gruppe M air intake system are certain that it will fit a stock 993tt wing so I have ordered one. It will not be fitted for about 3 weeks, but I will endeavour to photograph the process and hope to have the top intake integrated into the sealed intercooler surround.
The cost is about $1200US
The cost is about $1200US
07-09-2003, 03:44 PM
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TB993TT
I was under the impression that for our cars there was no performance gain with a mass flow type intake. I don't know why?
What are the claimed benefits of the system you are looking at?
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Keith
I was under the impression that for our cars there was no performance gain with a mass flow type intake. I don't know why?
What are the claimed benefits of the system you are looking at?
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Keith
07-09-2003, 04:41 PM
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Viperbob
They say it will, so we'll give it a try - I think your I/C may be even bigger. Once its on I can measure the gap needed at the back and you can see if it may fit on yours.
KRA993tt
This is more of a "ram air" system since it takes air from the top of the spoiler and funnels it into the intake via a K&N cone type filter. They claim they have seen 12 to 15hp on a GT2 on the dyno, but have not come up with any dyno charts. I feel that for standard cars with the (what looks to me) very efficient channelling of air from the spoiler through the snorkel and into the air box there is probably a minimal effect, but as soon as you modify and have to drill the air box to give more air flow then you disrupt the system, then when you put on a different intercooler and do away with that very efficient intercooler sealing shroud then you have lost the factory set up and this Gruppe M one may help.
They say it will, so we'll give it a try - I think your I/C may be even bigger. Once its on I can measure the gap needed at the back and you can see if it may fit on yours.
KRA993tt
This is more of a "ram air" system since it takes air from the top of the spoiler and funnels it into the intake via a K&N cone type filter. They claim they have seen 12 to 15hp on a GT2 on the dyno, but have not come up with any dyno charts. I feel that for standard cars with the (what looks to me) very efficient channelling of air from the spoiler through the snorkel and into the air box there is probably a minimal effect, but as soon as you modify and have to drill the air box to give more air flow then you disrupt the system, then when you put on a different intercooler and do away with that very efficient intercooler sealing shroud then you have lost the factory set up and this Gruppe M one may help.
07-09-2003, 04:50 PM
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I will be very interested to see the installation results. Please post some photos when you get it installed. As soon as I figure out the fresh air intake thing, I can seal my intercooler. It will be a piece of cake now with the Turbos S wing as it has even less clearance aound my intercooler than the standard wing....
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08-27-2003, 11:12 AM
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Glad you were finally able to get your car back.
Wow. That looks really nice. Seems to fit very well with your intercooler. Do you notice any difference with the cold air induction? Dyno run perhaps?
If you get a minute, would you mind taking a couple of measurements? My intercooler dimensions are much different, and I am not sure the this would fit.
Thanks and nice photos...
Wow. That looks really nice. Seems to fit very well with your intercooler. Do you notice any difference with the cold air induction? Dyno run perhaps?
If you get a minute, would you mind taking a couple of measurements? My intercooler dimensions are much different, and I am not sure the this would fit.
Thanks and nice photos...
08-27-2003, 11:45 AM
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TB993TT
Hope you like the install it looks great from here. I see now what you were saying regarding the ram air type intake. I would think this would be hard to quantify on a dyno. Any first impressions from driving with this installed? What was involved in the fitting process ?
Hope you like the install it looks great from here. I see now what you were saying regarding the ram air type intake. I would think this would be hard to quantify on a dyno. Any first impressions from driving with this installed? What was involved in the fitting process ?
08-27-2003, 12:44 PM
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Bob
The measurements are from the left: the first vertical line:14.8cm, second one:23cm. Top Horizontal 31.5 bottom: 14cm The horizontal lines are on an angle going up from the bodywork The vertical ones slope down from the bodywork. Hope this is helpful but feel free to ask for more - my tape is to hand
I think this thing is working as it must be getting a good supply of ambient air which is protected from any heating effects of the engine. Ambient temp today 75degF Driving around off positive boost, but with before intercooler intake temp at 100degF (turbo still spins) the after intake was 75 degF which means 100% efficiency (obviously this goes out of the window when dialling in positive boost) which I NEVER saw before - I put this down to higher temp air being sucked in from the engine compartment before. - This is the only real test one can do since the nature of boost delivery and intercooling is so dynamic. I am convinced the GruppeM works
Edit: Not sure if I have explained the above well enough: if before GruppeM the ambient was 75DegF (as read on the car guage) then the air actually been sucked in from the engine compartement may be say 83degF ('cos of the engine heat) this would increase the temp of the air coming out of the turbos in the above scenario to 108DegF and if the I/C dropped the temp by the same 25degF it would give after I/C temp of 83DegF and an efficiency of 90% since I have always used the ambient air figure from the car trip computer (as I don't have a probe actually at the point of air cleaner intake)
The measurements are from the left: the first vertical line:14.8cm, second one:23cm. Top Horizontal 31.5 bottom: 14cm The horizontal lines are on an angle going up from the bodywork The vertical ones slope down from the bodywork. Hope this is helpful but feel free to ask for more - my tape is to hand
I think this thing is working as it must be getting a good supply of ambient air which is protected from any heating effects of the engine. Ambient temp today 75degF Driving around off positive boost, but with before intercooler intake temp at 100degF (turbo still spins) the after intake was 75 degF which means 100% efficiency (obviously this goes out of the window when dialling in positive boost) which I NEVER saw before - I put this down to higher temp air being sucked in from the engine compartment before. - This is the only real test one can do since the nature of boost delivery and intercooling is so dynamic. I am convinced the GruppeM works
Edit: Not sure if I have explained the above well enough: if before GruppeM the ambient was 75DegF (as read on the car guage) then the air actually been sucked in from the engine compartement may be say 83degF ('cos of the engine heat) this would increase the temp of the air coming out of the turbos in the above scenario to 108DegF and if the I/C dropped the temp by the same 25degF it would give after I/C temp of 83DegF and an efficiency of 90% since I have always used the ambient air figure from the car trip computer (as I don't have a probe actually at the point of air cleaner intake)
08-27-2003, 02:29 PM
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keith,
i think it would be unlikely to have any ram air benefits.
ram air implies a larger volume of air being funnelled into a tighter chamber via positive pressure... if you had a gt2 wing pod, then you yould certainly get ram air... i think
i think it would be unlikely to have any ram air benefits.
ram air implies a larger volume of air being funnelled into a tighter chamber via positive pressure... if you had a gt2 wing pod, then you yould certainly get ram air... i think
08-27-2003, 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by superyellowfly
keith,
i think it would be unlikely to have any ram air benefits.
ram air implies a larger volume of air being funnelled into a tighter chamber via positive pressure... if you had a gt2 wing pod, then you yould certainly get ram air... i think
keith,
i think it would be unlikely to have any ram air benefits.
ram air implies a larger volume of air being funnelled into a tighter chamber via positive pressure... if you had a gt2 wing pod, then you yould certainly get ram air... i think
I think that if a GT2 set up you describe gives a "ram air" effect than the GruppeM will as it does what you describe above - thing with these turbo engines v'S N/A engines is there is a fair old way for the air to go before it enters the combustion chambers and any "ram air" effect will be lost probably as the air enters the turbo compressor, having said that it must be better than haviNG NO "ram air" effect.
08-27-2003, 02:54 PM
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TB993TT,
I think you're the second person i know to also deduce this... my guess the benefit is cold air... above anything else. spool up time and response is completely exhaust dependent...
hence my involvement in the solenoid controlled down pipe development.
logically, if the rate limiting factor is the bottleneck at the intake, then it would be quite safe to say that positive pressure will have certainly improve the flow of air. At higher speeds, ram air effect can easily create fairly sizable amounts of positive pressure. Any takers?
I think you're the second person i know to also deduce this... my guess the benefit is cold air... above anything else. spool up time and response is completely exhaust dependent...
hence my involvement in the solenoid controlled down pipe development.
logically, if the rate limiting factor is the bottleneck at the intake, then it would be quite safe to say that positive pressure will have certainly improve the flow of air. At higher speeds, ram air effect can easily create fairly sizable amounts of positive pressure. Any takers?
Last edited by ruffy; 08-27-2003 at 03:16 PM.