Just got my car back from the shop - 500+HP
03-30-2003, 07:37 AM
#16
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia. >>> Now in Gibraltar
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>
Q, I forgot to mention that I also added the fuel regulator first. Still not enough fuel. Instead of going to bigger injectors which may make the car run too rich when not at full throttle, the additional injectors allow for true tuning (only turned on when the fuel is necessary). The two injectors added were larger than the stock injectors. So the additional fuel requirement was pretty large.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">aaah, OK
thanks
<strong>
Q, I forgot to mention that I also added the fuel regulator first. Still not enough fuel. Instead of going to bigger injectors which may make the car run too rich when not at full throttle, the additional injectors allow for true tuning (only turned on when the fuel is necessary). The two injectors added were larger than the stock injectors. So the additional fuel requirement was pretty large.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">aaah, OK
thanks
03-30-2003, 09:08 PM
#17
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anthony / Eric
That would have been great, but I drove up to Napa yesterday and just got back this afternoon. Sorry, but would like to get together some time.
Ran into a few issues on the drive. First, I had really bad noise coming from one of my corners with the PSS9s and Monoball setup on slow braking, acceleration from a stop and slow turns. Every nut and bolt on that corner is tight (I recheck every bolt after someone works on my car). Need to look into this further.
The WEIRD thing is the CEL. The Unichip is a piggyback ECU, so the factory ECU is untouched. When the car was setup, there was no CEL. It came on during my drive home from the Racers Group (expected due to the removal of the cats). No issues or effects at all when it was on. Turned it off, and the car would almost not run. No idle, forget turbo boost, even shifting between gears slow caused the car to stumble. Gradually I guess the ECU started relearning with the other CPU. Drivability came back, boost started getting better, and then it was PERFECT again right when the CEL came back on after about 100 miles. Now it drives awesome, but what to do with the light?
So I do have a couple of things to resolve this week with TRG. The amount of work I had done always has some follow up issues. BUT THE CAR IS AWESOME.............
That would have been great, but I drove up to Napa yesterday and just got back this afternoon. Sorry, but would like to get together some time.
Ran into a few issues on the drive. First, I had really bad noise coming from one of my corners with the PSS9s and Monoball setup on slow braking, acceleration from a stop and slow turns. Every nut and bolt on that corner is tight (I recheck every bolt after someone works on my car). Need to look into this further.
The WEIRD thing is the CEL. The Unichip is a piggyback ECU, so the factory ECU is untouched. When the car was setup, there was no CEL. It came on during my drive home from the Racers Group (expected due to the removal of the cats). No issues or effects at all when it was on. Turned it off, and the car would almost not run. No idle, forget turbo boost, even shifting between gears slow caused the car to stumble. Gradually I guess the ECU started relearning with the other CPU. Drivability came back, boost started getting better, and then it was PERFECT again right when the CEL came back on after about 100 miles. Now it drives awesome, but what to do with the light?
So I do have a couple of things to resolve this week with TRG. The amount of work I had done always has some follow up issues. BUT THE CAR IS AWESOME.............
04-04-2003, 03:06 AM
#19
viperbob,
I was at TRG on Wednesday (getting them to check a Turbo I've been talking about in another thread) ... Jack was using your car (I now realise) as an example of "how to do it right" ... he seemed quite chuffed at the results (and, no exaggeration, your motor is turning over 500 neddies!) and compared the Unichip functionality (fuel enrichment and tuned to the given engine and all its differences and quirks) as distinct from a generic "cut and paste" of remapping to suit a generic engine configuration.
The Turbo I had there on the day was delivering 472hp (extrapolated to the flywheel) and it is a rocket sled ... your car must be, well, kind of quick, no?
Cheers,
I was at TRG on Wednesday (getting them to check a Turbo I've been talking about in another thread) ... Jack was using your car (I now realise) as an example of "how to do it right" ... he seemed quite chuffed at the results (and, no exaggeration, your motor is turning over 500 neddies!) and compared the Unichip functionality (fuel enrichment and tuned to the given engine and all its differences and quirks) as distinct from a generic "cut and paste" of remapping to suit a generic engine configuration.
The Turbo I had there on the day was delivering 472hp (extrapolated to the flywheel) and it is a rocket sled ... your car must be, well, kind of quick, no?
Cheers,
04-04-2003, 10:31 AM
#21
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In 2 years I'll need to reinstall the cats. Other than that, there is no change to standard emissions. There is no more fuel going in being used under normal conditions.
04-04-2003, 10:38 AM
#22
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CarreraGT,
Thanks. That is exactly why I went with the Unichip. Yes it is more expensive, but I want a Custom Tailored ECU instead of buying "Off the Rack".....
So did you buy the car???
Thanks. That is exactly why I went with the Unichip. Yes it is more expensive, but I want a Custom Tailored ECU instead of buying "Off the Rack".....
So did you buy the car???
04-04-2003, 09:03 PM
#23
That car is appealing, but the circumstances are complicated by a lack of proper documentation and the hanging cloud of the engine being quite sick. The rest of the car is sound -- adjustable Koni's, strut brace that looks like it was done by TRG, adjustable RS sways, 15" four-pot Bremo's on the front, 14's on the rear, factory wheels plus a fresh set of Fikse's with new Hoosier slicks, bolt-in cage and harnesses. Receipts from S-CAR-GO for work and parts.
The car started life in Florida with Francis Consentino, then sold to Frank Laereman in California. Does anyone recognise these names or this car?
I consider the car to need $5K to repair, replace or paint and refit various body parts and cabin trim, seats, carpets, mats, plus whatever it might take to bring it back to spec as a street car (repair damage from the roll-cage installation and find the rear seats etc.) And there's around $10K to repair the engine sooner or later.
In its present condition, the car has made the one-way journey to the track (no rear seats, roll cage, modified engine, brakes and suspension) so I can't value it by street car numbers. There's a ton of work and upgrades, but that "investment" never translates into resale value.
It's a '97 artic silver over boxster red, sold 10/97, now with 18K miles, sports seats, aluminum pack. There's also evidence of the car being set up for SCCA (battery isolater switch with remote pull strap under front hood and, obviously the cage) and some outlines of old sponsor decals and race stickers or whatever on the hood.
The engine work is relatively mild. Basically a pair of either GT2/K24 KKK's or some after-market equivalent (nobody at TRG could easily identify them as factory parts) some intake "work" (?) and hi-flo cats with a reprogrammed ECU. It doesn't have a Unichip. The exhaust is stock except for the hi-flo cats.
It's one of those shaggy dog things -- it's a disheveled, scruffy car, but it has the potential to be a fun street and track car again, it just needs some immediate work and, pretty soon, it will need a serious cash injection to repair the engine. Strangely, I'm not too intimidated by that idea (I always have it in the back of my mind that when I buy a Turbo, I will, in its life with me, end up getting the engine rebuilt) but given the long list of questions and negative points and some subjective stuff (it's got Boxster red interior ...) I think there's other fish.
Cheers,
Adam
The car started life in Florida with Francis Consentino, then sold to Frank Laereman in California. Does anyone recognise these names or this car?
I consider the car to need $5K to repair, replace or paint and refit various body parts and cabin trim, seats, carpets, mats, plus whatever it might take to bring it back to spec as a street car (repair damage from the roll-cage installation and find the rear seats etc.) And there's around $10K to repair the engine sooner or later.
In its present condition, the car has made the one-way journey to the track (no rear seats, roll cage, modified engine, brakes and suspension) so I can't value it by street car numbers. There's a ton of work and upgrades, but that "investment" never translates into resale value.
It's a '97 artic silver over boxster red, sold 10/97, now with 18K miles, sports seats, aluminum pack. There's also evidence of the car being set up for SCCA (battery isolater switch with remote pull strap under front hood and, obviously the cage) and some outlines of old sponsor decals and race stickers or whatever on the hood.
The engine work is relatively mild. Basically a pair of either GT2/K24 KKK's or some after-market equivalent (nobody at TRG could easily identify them as factory parts) some intake "work" (?) and hi-flo cats with a reprogrammed ECU. It doesn't have a Unichip. The exhaust is stock except for the hi-flo cats.
It's one of those shaggy dog things -- it's a disheveled, scruffy car, but it has the potential to be a fun street and track car again, it just needs some immediate work and, pretty soon, it will need a serious cash injection to repair the engine. Strangely, I'm not too intimidated by that idea (I always have it in the back of my mind that when I buy a Turbo, I will, in its life with me, end up getting the engine rebuilt) but given the long list of questions and negative points and some subjective stuff (it's got Boxster red interior ...) I think there's other fish.
Cheers,
Adam
04-05-2003, 06:50 AM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>CarreraGT,
Thanks. That is exactly why I went with the Unichip. Yes it is more expensive, but I want a Custom Tailored ECU instead of buying "Off the Rack".....
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">viperbob
Its good news that you are happy with your new set up <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
For the benefit of posters reading your comments above, I would argue that an off the rack Motronic ECU from a reputable source will be more desirable than a piggy back which presumably was set up either on a chassis dyno or actually on the road.
For the majority of upgraded ECU's, the base programs for these 993tt Motronic ECU upgrades come from very few sources since there are very few people who can actually make the software work properly with engine modifications. These base programs have been arrived at after hours of painstaking work on engine dynos (like the factory uses) and with liason with the originators of the software. The cost of developing for example a 480hp program to work with new turbos etc would probably have cost minimum $15000 in dyno time alone. To give you an example of how it works, when my engine was built, the base 520PS program was used to run the motor and then a further 5 hours engine dyno time (costing around $6500)was needed to fine tune the program to that individual engine for maximum torque. Of course the base program would have worked but I wanted real tailored tuning
<strong>CarreraGT,
Thanks. That is exactly why I went with the Unichip. Yes it is more expensive, but I want a Custom Tailored ECU instead of buying "Off the Rack".....
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">viperbob
Its good news that you are happy with your new set up <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
For the benefit of posters reading your comments above, I would argue that an off the rack Motronic ECU from a reputable source will be more desirable than a piggy back which presumably was set up either on a chassis dyno or actually on the road.
For the majority of upgraded ECU's, the base programs for these 993tt Motronic ECU upgrades come from very few sources since there are very few people who can actually make the software work properly with engine modifications. These base programs have been arrived at after hours of painstaking work on engine dynos (like the factory uses) and with liason with the originators of the software. The cost of developing for example a 480hp program to work with new turbos etc would probably have cost minimum $15000 in dyno time alone. To give you an example of how it works, when my engine was built, the base 520PS program was used to run the motor and then a further 5 hours engine dyno time (costing around $6500)was needed to fine tune the program to that individual engine for maximum torque. Of course the base program would have worked but I wanted real tailored tuning
04-05-2003, 11:25 AM
#25
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tampa
Posts: 6,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TB993TT,
If you are buying a full "Program" from a tuner, then the ECU was developed with all of the individual pieces that are a part of the Program. I agree that the tuners that provide these ECUs have spent an incredible amount of time and money dynoing multiple cars to get the best average program that will work consistantly. They plug right in and work. If you take off your cats, will you get the most out of your car? Doubtful. You may even hurt your car as you could have a lean condition that developed was not part of the tuners original map.
I am unclear on your point. I felt that spending $3500 for the Unichip and having it custom fit to my car using a number of hours of dyno time was the best solution. The solution moving forward is adjustable for a number of things. If I want to add even larger turbos, then it is a small effort to tune to this new feature. It can also control different injectors, and have a secondary mapping so that at the flip of a switch you can optimize for higher octane fuel at the track. You also seemed to want the most out of your car, so you spent the additional money to tune to the max.
My feeling is you should get the right product for your own intended use.
If you are buying a full "Program" from a tuner, then the ECU was developed with all of the individual pieces that are a part of the Program. I agree that the tuners that provide these ECUs have spent an incredible amount of time and money dynoing multiple cars to get the best average program that will work consistantly. They plug right in and work. If you take off your cats, will you get the most out of your car? Doubtful. You may even hurt your car as you could have a lean condition that developed was not part of the tuners original map.
I am unclear on your point. I felt that spending $3500 for the Unichip and having it custom fit to my car using a number of hours of dyno time was the best solution. The solution moving forward is adjustable for a number of things. If I want to add even larger turbos, then it is a small effort to tune to this new feature. It can also control different injectors, and have a secondary mapping so that at the flip of a switch you can optimize for higher octane fuel at the track. You also seemed to want the most out of your car, so you spent the additional money to tune to the max.
My feeling is you should get the right product for your own intended use.
04-05-2003, 11:55 AM
#26
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>
The car went from 374HP at the start to 507HP. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Bob, congrats. Question, do you mean 507 to the rear wheels or crank HP?
-Ryan
<strong>
The car went from 374HP at the start to 507HP. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Bob, congrats. Question, do you mean 507 to the rear wheels or crank HP?
-Ryan
04-05-2003, 12:30 PM
#27
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by viperbob:
<strong>TB993TT,
I am unclear on your point. I felt that spending $3500 for the Unichip and having it custom fit to my car using a number of hours of dyno time was the best solution. The solution moving forward is adjustable for a number of things. If I want to add even larger turbos, then it is a small effort to tune to this new feature. It can also control different injectors, and have a secondary mapping so that at the flip of a switch you can optimize for higher octane fuel at the track. You also seemed to want the most out of your car, so you spent the additional money to tune to the max.
My feeling is you should get the right product for your own intended use.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think my point is that the Motronic, correctly optimised will make the tt drive in the best possible way - as Porsche intended just with more torque everywhere.
I can't disagree with what you say above because I am not aware how good the Unichip is, does it allow the overboost facility which follows knock ? does it have all the safeguards of the Motronic ? If it were anything like as good as Motronic then why do non of the top Euro Porsche tuners work with it ? In my experience with these cars, tuners that can will work the Motronic, those that can't will use another ECU system.
<strong>TB993TT,
I am unclear on your point. I felt that spending $3500 for the Unichip and having it custom fit to my car using a number of hours of dyno time was the best solution. The solution moving forward is adjustable for a number of things. If I want to add even larger turbos, then it is a small effort to tune to this new feature. It can also control different injectors, and have a secondary mapping so that at the flip of a switch you can optimize for higher octane fuel at the track. You also seemed to want the most out of your car, so you spent the additional money to tune to the max.
My feeling is you should get the right product for your own intended use.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think my point is that the Motronic, correctly optimised will make the tt drive in the best possible way - as Porsche intended just with more torque everywhere.
I can't disagree with what you say above because I am not aware how good the Unichip is, does it allow the overboost facility which follows knock ? does it have all the safeguards of the Motronic ? If it were anything like as good as Motronic then why do non of the top Euro Porsche tuners work with it ? In my experience with these cars, tuners that can will work the Motronic, those that can't will use another ECU system.
