air cold intake (K&N)
03-08-2003, 02:41 PM
#1
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air cold intake (K&N)
Hi,
I'm helping my friend to boost his 993TT, but I know these baby's dont respond well to cheap upgrade. So the guy at the speed shop try ( and I know he try hard) to selle him a K&N cone filter with pipe for what he call " cold air intake" for over 1000$ CAN, but I'm sure the only gain will be in the trottle response and no HP gain at all!!! For my self, it does't make any sense beacause it's the job of the intercooler to put cold air in the intake...
I toll him to begin whit oil cooler, intercooler, bypass test pipe, muffler... and so on... but I don't think the cone filter is appropriate for a rear mounted engine... to be sure the engine is safe before doing anything regrettable <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
After all,Porsche have already think of hot air problem...
So if someone could confirme me that the law's of physic's applied to the 993TT ether...
Tanks
I'm helping my friend to boost his 993TT, but I know these baby's dont respond well to cheap upgrade. So the guy at the speed shop try ( and I know he try hard) to selle him a K&N cone filter with pipe for what he call " cold air intake" for over 1000$ CAN, but I'm sure the only gain will be in the trottle response and no HP gain at all!!! For my self, it does't make any sense beacause it's the job of the intercooler to put cold air in the intake...
I toll him to begin whit oil cooler, intercooler, bypass test pipe, muffler... and so on... but I don't think the cone filter is appropriate for a rear mounted engine... to be sure the engine is safe before doing anything regrettable <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />
After all,Porsche have already think of hot air problem...
So if someone could confirme me that the law's of physic's applied to the 993TT ether...
Tanks
03-08-2003, 04:20 PM
#2
Check out <a href="http://www.993tt.com" target="_blank">www.993tt.com</a>
Also check the archives, I remember that there were at least 2 different intake "solutions" presented before. I don't think there was a consensus on whether they helped/hurt, but you make get enough information to contact those people individually.
I think spending $1000 CDN for an intake is a waste of money. There are a lot of other mods that you can do that can improve your power/reliability for sure.
Also check the archives, I remember that there were at least 2 different intake "solutions" presented before. I don't think there was a consensus on whether they helped/hurt, but you make get enough information to contact those people individually.
I think spending $1000 CDN for an intake is a waste of money. There are a lot of other mods that you can do that can improve your power/reliability for sure.
03-08-2003, 07:22 PM
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Put a cone filter on a 993TT? Sorry, but that's counter productive. How are you going to mount the cone filter above the Intercooler to get fresh air?
The stock intake system grabs air at the top of the intercooler, away from the heat of the engine. There are no real intake air restrictions with the stock system. The K&N setup isn't going to give him any extra throttle response or HP.
I was just watching the Grand Prix of Miami on Speedvision today and saw a K&N commercial. They were claiming "Get 24 more HP by changing to a K&N filter on your car". Pure BS & snake oil!!!!
If you are advising this guy, tell him to, in the following order:
1 - Modify his ECU (biggest bang for the buck)
2 - Add an additional oil cooler
3 - Get better Turbos (GT1 Hybrids)
4 - Add a CAT Bypass
5 - Modify the intercooler (Andial), or get a bigger Intercooler
There are a lot of guys on this board who have successfully modified their 993TT engines to produce a lot of power (over 500HP), using the stock intake setup. I can't think of anyone who has added this K&N garbage to get any additional HP. That should tell your friend something.
Have him make a call to Steve Weiner, Rennlist’s Technical Advisor, at 503-244-0990…. that should straighten him out.
Rick
<a href="http://www.993tt.com" target="_blank">www.993tt.com</a>
The stock intake system grabs air at the top of the intercooler, away from the heat of the engine. There are no real intake air restrictions with the stock system. The K&N setup isn't going to give him any extra throttle response or HP.
I was just watching the Grand Prix of Miami on Speedvision today and saw a K&N commercial. They were claiming "Get 24 more HP by changing to a K&N filter on your car". Pure BS & snake oil!!!!
If you are advising this guy, tell him to, in the following order:
1 - Modify his ECU (biggest bang for the buck)
2 - Add an additional oil cooler
3 - Get better Turbos (GT1 Hybrids)
4 - Add a CAT Bypass
5 - Modify the intercooler (Andial), or get a bigger Intercooler
There are a lot of guys on this board who have successfully modified their 993TT engines to produce a lot of power (over 500HP), using the stock intake setup. I can't think of anyone who has added this K&N garbage to get any additional HP. That should tell your friend something.
Have him make a call to Steve Weiner, Rennlist’s Technical Advisor, at 503-244-0990…. that should straighten him out.
Rick
<a href="http://www.993tt.com" target="_blank">www.993tt.com</a>
03-08-2003, 07:45 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
In addition to the sensible list that Rick presents, there is some real HP to be gained with either a catalytic-convertor bypass, or (still looking into this) a muffler bypass. Consensus is that a TT doesn't need both the CATS and the mufflers... it'll be plenty quiet with one of them removed. And it seems that a stock TT can pick up 25+HP with a cat bypass. A modified TT will get even more. Jury is still out on the muffler bypass, but is simpler, cheaper, and here in California at least, smog legal. Worth a try, me thinks.
03-08-2003, 08:19 PM
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Steve,
You are absolutely right. The CAT bypasses make a big difference, especially with a modified engine. The biggest advantage to the CAT bypasses is the gain on the bottom end and much better Turbo response.
I doubt that the muffler bypasses would make all that much of a difference other than noise at low rpm.
Rick
<a href="http://www.993tt.com" target="_blank">www.993tt.com</a>
You are absolutely right. The CAT bypasses make a big difference, especially with a modified engine. The biggest advantage to the CAT bypasses is the gain on the bottom end and much better Turbo response.
I doubt that the muffler bypasses would make all that much of a difference other than noise at low rpm.
Rick
<a href="http://www.993tt.com" target="_blank">www.993tt.com</a>
03-08-2003, 10:17 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Rick,
I tried an experiment today; I disconnected the mufflers and pulled them out of the way, and drove for a bit. Sounds pretty good. My very uncalibrated butt-o-meter, which could be fooled by the extra sound says 20HP. My wife on the other hand, says "don't you dare". Need I say more... mufflers are going back on!
I tried an experiment today; I disconnected the mufflers and pulled them out of the way, and drove for a bit. Sounds pretty good. My very uncalibrated butt-o-meter, which could be fooled by the extra sound says 20HP. My wife on the other hand, says "don't you dare". Need I say more... mufflers are going back on!
03-09-2003, 01:37 AM
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Steve,
There has been lots of people that have pulled the mufflers off and noticed no real difference except for the additional noise. The mufflers aren't very restricted at all. I rode in a TT that was running muffler bypass pipes, and hated the sound. It was way too loud idling and at low RPMS.
As said before, the major resistance to the exhaust airflow are the CATS. Get rid of those and you will make some real progress. Also, CAT bypass pipes along with Robin’s mufflers creates a great sound.
Rick
<a href="http://www.993TT.com" target="_blank">www.993TT.com</a>
There has been lots of people that have pulled the mufflers off and noticed no real difference except for the additional noise. The mufflers aren't very restricted at all. I rode in a TT that was running muffler bypass pipes, and hated the sound. It was way too loud idling and at low RPMS.
As said before, the major resistance to the exhaust airflow are the CATS. Get rid of those and you will make some real progress. Also, CAT bypass pipes along with Robin’s mufflers creates a great sound.
Rick
<a href="http://www.993TT.com" target="_blank">www.993TT.com</a>
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03-09-2003, 02:30 AM
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Rick,
Which of the cat bypass options do you favor (e.g. FVD, Fab, custom, etc.)?
Also, if you've done it, how did you approach the CEL problem?
Thanks!
BTW, ftanguay, getting rid of the cats also elminates quite a bit of weight at the rear, which improves handling as well.
Which of the cat bypass options do you favor (e.g. FVD, Fab, custom, etc.)?
Also, if you've done it, how did you approach the CEL problem?
Thanks!
BTW, ftanguay, getting rid of the cats also elminates quite a bit of weight at the rear, which improves handling as well.
03-09-2003, 02:44 AM
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Hi Anir!
I never did them myself, but I hear the Car Graphics are pretty good. Probably the FVD's are ok as well. You might want to call Mike Schatz at 805-482-7278 and ask him directly since he is a FVD dealer. I believe Rob Wolford had the FVD’s put on and was ecstatic with the results!!
There is a different way to accomplish this. There is a guy in Scottsdale, Az. that can take your CATS and weld some pretty cool flanges on the ends so you can remove just the CATS and slip in some bypass pipes that have the same flanges attached to them.
Then when you need to smog the car, you can remove the bypass pipes and slide the CATS back in. Both the CATS and the CAT bypass pipes have the same flange fittings. So, it's a matter of removing 3 bolts per end to slide them in or out. I understand that it takes about 30 minutes to make the switch. A very cool idea and setup.
His name is Bob Holcomb, and he owns a shop by the name of Motor Designs of Scottsdale. Bob is a master machinist and does unbelievable work. Bob's number is 480-483-9514. It was about 1 1/2 years ago when I talked with him.
I understand you can just let the secondary oxygen sensors hang loose and you won't throw any codes. That's just what I have heard.
Cheers!
Rick
<a href="http://www.993TT.com" target="_blank">www.993TT.com</a>
I never did them myself, but I hear the Car Graphics are pretty good. Probably the FVD's are ok as well. You might want to call Mike Schatz at 805-482-7278 and ask him directly since he is a FVD dealer. I believe Rob Wolford had the FVD’s put on and was ecstatic with the results!!
There is a different way to accomplish this. There is a guy in Scottsdale, Az. that can take your CATS and weld some pretty cool flanges on the ends so you can remove just the CATS and slip in some bypass pipes that have the same flanges attached to them.
Then when you need to smog the car, you can remove the bypass pipes and slide the CATS back in. Both the CATS and the CAT bypass pipes have the same flange fittings. So, it's a matter of removing 3 bolts per end to slide them in or out. I understand that it takes about 30 minutes to make the switch. A very cool idea and setup.
His name is Bob Holcomb, and he owns a shop by the name of Motor Designs of Scottsdale. Bob is a master machinist and does unbelievable work. Bob's number is 480-483-9514. It was about 1 1/2 years ago when I talked with him.
I understand you can just let the secondary oxygen sensors hang loose and you won't throw any codes. That's just what I have heard.
Cheers!
Rick
<a href="http://www.993TT.com" target="_blank">www.993TT.com</a>
03-09-2003, 02:57 AM
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Rick,
Thanks for the info, especially regarding Motor Designs.
In Kentucky, we do not have emissions testing, but the idea of a quick-change approach is cool. I wonder how much weight can be eliminated in just removing the cat canisters themselves. If I remember correctly, John D II posted that the FVD cat bypass pipes were 10 lb each, but I don't remember what the stock cats weigh.
Thanks for the info, especially regarding Motor Designs.
In Kentucky, we do not have emissions testing, but the idea of a quick-change approach is cool. I wonder how much weight can be eliminated in just removing the cat canisters themselves. If I remember correctly, John D II posted that the FVD cat bypass pipes were 10 lb each, but I don't remember what the stock cats weigh.