Put in Bid for 96TT, now I;m asking questions
01-07-2004, 09:21 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Put in Bid for 96TT, now I;m asking questions
Hi,
Just put a bid (subject to inspection) in today for a 1996 993TT waiting for owner to come back with his answer.
Assuming he accepts, what should I particularly look out for?
It's got about 100,000km, slight dings, tired interior, slight oil weeping from valve covers, no white smoke, new suspension and clutch....and polar silver. How much would something like that fetch in US and UK? just to compare.
It's one of two p-car models that I have been waiting for for some time so am quite excited but want to know what I'm in for.
I am probably going to redo the entire interior (new leather and carpets & rip out all the porsche carbon fiber TTS bits) and free up the exhaust immediately. Engine rebuild will follow a few months after I've blasted the old engine to the limit.
So what should I be wary of?
Just put a bid (subject to inspection) in today for a 1996 993TT waiting for owner to come back with his answer.
Assuming he accepts, what should I particularly look out for?
It's got about 100,000km, slight dings, tired interior, slight oil weeping from valve covers, no white smoke, new suspension and clutch....and polar silver. How much would something like that fetch in US and UK? just to compare.
It's one of two p-car models that I have been waiting for for some time so am quite excited but want to know what I'm in for.
I am probably going to redo the entire interior (new leather and carpets & rip out all the porsche carbon fiber TTS bits) and free up the exhaust immediately. Engine rebuild will follow a few months after I've blasted the old engine to the limit.
So what should I be wary of?
01-07-2004, 10:47 AM
#2
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All the best
pzull, there is not much to be wary of since you are expecting it all... especially given your readiness to rebuild
Engine: 100K KM is not that much and you may still have almost an equal amount of mileage to drive before requiring a rebuild but circumstances can differ from car to car. If the engine requires a rebuild sooner rather than later, it seems like you are quite prepared. One issue that is much talked about on the 993 normally aspirated board is the carbon build up issue. I have no first hand experience with this and from what I have read, it is much less likely to affect non-US cars.
Heat is an enemy and if this car has seen much traffic in Singapore heat, it may have suffered a bit.
Routine maintenance: I do the usual replacement of fluids (brake, gear, oil, etc.), fuel pump, filters, tyres, etc. on a routine basis ahead of schedule and this has helped in enjoying many years of absolutely trouble free TT ownership. On a visit to your country, I met fellow rennlist users, "Weng" (currently GT3 and previously 993TT) and "leslie" (previously 993RS and was looking for a Mark 1 GT3). They may be able to give you some first hand help and encouragement.
Transmission: You will probably read about the bent gear issue. The first gear, in some of the abused cars, sometimes needs some work. There was apparently an improved part installed in the later TTs but I am not sure that either part works well. And both work just fine if the car is not abused. In fact I have seen more 1997 model TTs with bent gears though that is just happenstance. If you or one of the previous owners drag launches the car, there is a good chance that you will have to pay for the privilege. However, there are some here who report no problems at all even with lots of enthusiastic activity (if I am not mistaken a UK rennlist user with one of the earliest of the 993 turbos reported no problems). This problem was cited most in the earliest turbos that were subjected to 0-60 tests for obvious reasons. Later turbos were probably not subjected to this manner of abuse with as much regularity.
Turbos: To save the turbos, I always idle the car before switching off for a minimum of two minutes after all runs. Unfortunately, many convince themselves that it is okay to simply drive slowly for the last 5 minutes. I am not so sure but in this regard I have always played it safe. There may be no way of knowing if your car has been well treated given the relatively higher mileage. So, I would try to maintain the turbos without worrying about the past.
Systems and Parts failure: Be gentle with the doors. Some, on the 993 board, have had to do some welding I believe. Otherwise, if you really want to know, there is a long list of things to look out for but take them as they come. The TT is quite complex. As such, many of these systems can outlast the car's life but some may fail. Which system fails is anybody's guess. I am not sure that upgrading random components to make one particular system last forever is a good idea and sometimes it can be self defeating if such upgraded nicety is not optimised for the car. As you start enjoying the car, you will figure out what you may want to do.
Power Upgrades: Regarding power upgrades, whatever you do, try to install the appropriate additional cooler. There are many on the board who are on the leading edge of upgrades. Do a search and TB993tt, viperbob and others are the currently active rennlist users who are pushing the limits of the TT. Mine is stock except for the suspension so I cannot offer much in this regard.
All the best.
Engine: 100K KM is not that much and you may still have almost an equal amount of mileage to drive before requiring a rebuild but circumstances can differ from car to car. If the engine requires a rebuild sooner rather than later, it seems like you are quite prepared. One issue that is much talked about on the 993 normally aspirated board is the carbon build up issue. I have no first hand experience with this and from what I have read, it is much less likely to affect non-US cars.
Heat is an enemy and if this car has seen much traffic in Singapore heat, it may have suffered a bit.
Routine maintenance: I do the usual replacement of fluids (brake, gear, oil, etc.), fuel pump, filters, tyres, etc. on a routine basis ahead of schedule and this has helped in enjoying many years of absolutely trouble free TT ownership. On a visit to your country, I met fellow rennlist users, "Weng" (currently GT3 and previously 993TT) and "leslie" (previously 993RS and was looking for a Mark 1 GT3). They may be able to give you some first hand help and encouragement.
Transmission: You will probably read about the bent gear issue. The first gear, in some of the abused cars, sometimes needs some work. There was apparently an improved part installed in the later TTs but I am not sure that either part works well. And both work just fine if the car is not abused. In fact I have seen more 1997 model TTs with bent gears though that is just happenstance. If you or one of the previous owners drag launches the car, there is a good chance that you will have to pay for the privilege. However, there are some here who report no problems at all even with lots of enthusiastic activity (if I am not mistaken a UK rennlist user with one of the earliest of the 993 turbos reported no problems). This problem was cited most in the earliest turbos that were subjected to 0-60 tests for obvious reasons. Later turbos were probably not subjected to this manner of abuse with as much regularity.
Turbos: To save the turbos, I always idle the car before switching off for a minimum of two minutes after all runs. Unfortunately, many convince themselves that it is okay to simply drive slowly for the last 5 minutes. I am not so sure but in this regard I have always played it safe. There may be no way of knowing if your car has been well treated given the relatively higher mileage. So, I would try to maintain the turbos without worrying about the past.
Systems and Parts failure: Be gentle with the doors. Some, on the 993 board, have had to do some welding I believe. Otherwise, if you really want to know, there is a long list of things to look out for but take them as they come. The TT is quite complex. As such, many of these systems can outlast the car's life but some may fail. Which system fails is anybody's guess. I am not sure that upgrading random components to make one particular system last forever is a good idea and sometimes it can be self defeating if such upgraded nicety is not optimised for the car. As you start enjoying the car, you will figure out what you may want to do.
Power Upgrades: Regarding power upgrades, whatever you do, try to install the appropriate additional cooler. There are many on the board who are on the leading edge of upgrades. Do a search and TB993tt, viperbob and others are the currently active rennlist users who are pushing the limits of the TT. Mine is stock except for the suspension so I cannot offer much in this regard.
All the best.
01-07-2004, 12:45 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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Ran,
Awesome amount of info. THANKS!
ACtually I'm looking for opportunity to nitpick to obtain a "reasonable" price.
How would one detect a bent 1st gear?
As far as I know previous 2 owners didn;t track the car and were not particularly aggressive drivers.
Is there a problem with premature worn valve guides especially cars in hot weather that's seen mostly city driving?
I know Weng and have met Leslie. Weng was the fatest porsche driver in Sepang until another club member developed a killer weapon of a monster 996TT. Market talk is Leslie bought and sold the GT3 in a matter of months and regretted exporting the RS and was looking for a 355 or the like.
Will probably start with simple mods before doing the serious stuff....I like to appreciate individual mods (normally Gtech each one before moving to next to keep a record of what works and what doesn't).
Looks like a turbo timer will give me an automated solution to leaving car running for awhile after ignition off - I would have thought this was standard since it IS very important.
Do freeing up exhaust flow make noticeable gains? If the TT mufflers are same as NA 993s then it's pretty restrictive. I've read people here have bypassed both mufflers and cats....is that loud? what's HP gains?
There's a guy in Singapore that's put on FVD turbo mods and have obtained 550 hp but more importantly huge gains right across the rev range.
Has anyone checked the stock air/fuel mixture across the rev range at WOT? I suspect it's running lean for environmental reasons....at least that's what I;ve found on my 964 ie. running 14:1 ratio up to about 4,000 rpm before any semblence of richening - the lean mix must be constraining ignition advance and hence power in the lower rpms.
How about lightweight flywheel? does it make as much difference as in NA cars?
Sorry so many questions....will be my first forced induction car....OK will scour the archives now!
Awesome amount of info. THANKS!
ACtually I'm looking for opportunity to nitpick to obtain a "reasonable" price.
How would one detect a bent 1st gear?
As far as I know previous 2 owners didn;t track the car and were not particularly aggressive drivers.
Is there a problem with premature worn valve guides especially cars in hot weather that's seen mostly city driving?
I know Weng and have met Leslie. Weng was the fatest porsche driver in Sepang until another club member developed a killer weapon of a monster 996TT. Market talk is Leslie bought and sold the GT3 in a matter of months and regretted exporting the RS and was looking for a 355 or the like.
Will probably start with simple mods before doing the serious stuff....I like to appreciate individual mods (normally Gtech each one before moving to next to keep a record of what works and what doesn't).
Looks like a turbo timer will give me an automated solution to leaving car running for awhile after ignition off - I would have thought this was standard since it IS very important.
Do freeing up exhaust flow make noticeable gains? If the TT mufflers are same as NA 993s then it's pretty restrictive. I've read people here have bypassed both mufflers and cats....is that loud? what's HP gains?
There's a guy in Singapore that's put on FVD turbo mods and have obtained 550 hp but more importantly huge gains right across the rev range.
Has anyone checked the stock air/fuel mixture across the rev range at WOT? I suspect it's running lean for environmental reasons....at least that's what I;ve found on my 964 ie. running 14:1 ratio up to about 4,000 rpm before any semblence of richening - the lean mix must be constraining ignition advance and hence power in the lower rpms.
How about lightweight flywheel? does it make as much difference as in NA cars?
Sorry so many questions....will be my first forced induction car....OK will scour the archives now!
01-07-2004, 03:52 PM
#5
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There is information on the 1st gear shaft diagnosis you ask about on
993tt.com/. Also some other good things to check.
993tt.com/. Also some other good things to check.
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01-09-2004, 07:18 PM
#8
Racer
"Engine rebuild will follow a few months after I've blasted the old engine to the limit."
Won't last that long. These are 50,000 mile engines, yours is living on borrowed time.
Won't last that long. These are 50,000 mile engines, yours is living on borrowed time.
01-09-2004, 07:28 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Dick,
Are you saying that a 993TT engine is normally ready for a rebuild in 50,000 miles? Or are you talking about this particular engine that you suspect has been abused or poorly maintained.
I've never heard anything to suggest that 993TTs... normally driven and maintained... won't last well into the 100,000 mile range without any serious engine work... and then its probably valve guides. Mine has 60,000 miles and still runs like new (well... Bob found a little bit of oil in the intercooler; its going to be turbo rebuild time in about a year).
Are you saying that a 993TT engine is normally ready for a rebuild in 50,000 miles? Or are you talking about this particular engine that you suspect has been abused or poorly maintained.
I've never heard anything to suggest that 993TTs... normally driven and maintained... won't last well into the 100,000 mile range without any serious engine work... and then its probably valve guides. Mine has 60,000 miles and still runs like new (well... Bob found a little bit of oil in the intercooler; its going to be turbo rebuild time in about a year).
01-09-2004, 08:29 PM
#11
Racer
Steve,
It was sarcasm as the reference to the engine rebuild on a 62000 mile TT (after flogging the p*ss out of it) as well as "rip out all the carbon fiber bits" shows a lack of respect for these cars.
I have driven 911's for thirty-two years, all except my TT were daily drivers, I put 165K on a 3.0 and 150K on a 3.2 and neither were remotely needing even a valve job, much less an engine rebuild!
It was sarcasm as the reference to the engine rebuild on a 62000 mile TT (after flogging the p*ss out of it) as well as "rip out all the carbon fiber bits" shows a lack of respect for these cars.
I have driven 911's for thirty-two years, all except my TT were daily drivers, I put 165K on a 3.0 and 150K on a 3.2 and neither were remotely needing even a valve job, much less an engine rebuild!
01-09-2004, 08:58 PM
#12
Nordschleife Master
Geez Dick, now I feel like an idiot. I put 180,000 miles on a 1974 2.7l, and it was still running fine except for the loose case studs! Sorry I misconstrued your sarcasm, and took you seriously.
01-10-2004, 12:40 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
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Dick,
These cars were made for the track as much as for the road. I just choose to do my fast blasts on the track and drive like a wussy on public roads. Ripping out the carbon fiber bits isn';t out of lack of respect but to put the car back to stock since these bits were retrofitted but more importantly I don't have chunky gold chains and compressed carbon rocks to wear on my fingers....y'know to compliment the look of the carbon interior
These cars are made to run, I dont think i would be doing it justice by parking it in a garage and keep to rev limits of <4,000 rpm.....anyway that's just not my idea of why i am buying the car.
These cars were made for the track as much as for the road. I just choose to do my fast blasts on the track and drive like a wussy on public roads. Ripping out the carbon fiber bits isn';t out of lack of respect but to put the car back to stock since these bits were retrofitted but more importantly I don't have chunky gold chains and compressed carbon rocks to wear on my fingers....y'know to compliment the look of the carbon interior
These cars are made to run, I dont think i would be doing it justice by parking it in a garage and keep to rev limits of <4,000 rpm.....anyway that's just not my idea of why i am buying the car.
01-12-2004, 12:20 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
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The deal has fallen through. Seller wants a HUGE premium in accordance to how much the stock market has shot up in the last one year citing better affordability of buyers from stock market gains and collectibles like the TT moving in tandem with stock market.....I'll need to find an investment advisor to figure this one out.
Anyway a BIG thanks for all your input!
Anyway a BIG thanks for all your input!