axl911

Soooo...what's next?

Water cooled 996? The FIRST generation and REBIRTH of Porsche????

HDA

Topics like this give me anxiety.

HDA

I mean, not the fact that sales have "dramatically slowed" but more the constant "worry" of the average rennlister about the value of its 911.

If your car has more than 50k miles then it's just a car, not a collectible piece of furniture in a garage. Enjoy it, drive it. We can be "amused" by how much the values have gone crazy in the past 5/7 years but in my opinion If you want to make money then open a dry cleaner in a developing area: less exciting but more profitable.

Or buy an early Viper GTS. Those make good money.

In my opinion here are the values for 993 for 2017
Base case: Carrera 2 Varioram Manual, very good conditions, clean title, around 100k miles: $40k.

Subtract/Add $2k for every 10k miles more/less
Tiptronic -10%
Cabrio -10%
C4 -7%
Non Varioram -5%
S model +55/60%
Turbo Model +250%

PRSWILL

I didn't raise this to make people anxious or to drive a "what's my car worth" kind of thing. Just an observation that is seems like a many very nice, 993's seem to be sitting a lot longer. Is it the price or is it just that the car's falling out of favor, or the audience that really cares about these cars, has what they want.
With VERY VERY few exceptions in the car world, buying a vehicle as an investment make very poor financial sense.

HDA

Gotcha.

I think now the 964 is "the one to have" so if the buyer wants to buy a Porsche, and they don't know much about them, they get influenced by the "society".

The "society" (which it is influenced by the dreadlock guy, singer etc) now is moving from "the last of the air cooled" to the "great platform to customize".

There is still a buyer for a 911 out there, he just shifted to a different model.

Gbos1

Depends.... Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, and so on... certain cars have increased dramatically and know many who have done very very well. Others I know have collections of cars...no different than the Stock Market. I know of a few Ford GT owners that more than doubled their initial investment recently from their purchase new back in 2004-05. A friend sold his 911R for $450K much more than the initial $190K. Lamborghini Countach purchased for $110K just sold for $420K. . . . . . . I could go on and on here.........

vincer77

It does not have to be that many cars to drive up the prices. I believe Singer has over 150 cars that have been or will be built. How many 964s are available on the market at any one time? Maybe 100?

So if 150 are taken off the market - it can have a big influence on the price.

As owners see the values go up, and put their cars on the market, the market will get sarurated and prices should settle. My 2 cents.

Tlaloc75

Once you at or over 100k I think you can add dollars if big ticket items have been taken care of. I'd guess something like:
Full suspension refresh +5k
Top-end engine rebuild +5k
Clutch/Flywheel +2k

These are costs that you are likely to have to take on if you buy a car with lower miles that hasn't had the work done yet.

gmgracing

I've been watching an increase in vintage sports sedans ( Alfa GTV, BMW 2002, Datsun 510). Many buyers seem to be (or were) part of the aircooled crowd who appear to see these cars as a comparative bargains.

-Andrew

mgerber

I think some of you are being overly generous in calling any 993 a "collectible". IIRC there were something like 68K total 993s made. Compare that to something like 2K for the Lambo Countach. When prices of things made in higher volumes rise, folks will dust them off and pull them out of garages. Supply and demand at work for something that is more readily available. The lower volume stuff (993RS, GT2, etc) will hold value.

Gbos1

Let's get one thing straight ...talking about WB 993s here ... World production 20+ years ago... only so many made it to USA ... many wrecked, hacked, destroyed etc... and only a handful of Excellent, Well Maintained, Records, Low mile examples exist..thus "premium" but other WB 993s still command a premium and will continue to based on current auction and private sales. "mostly Hand Built" last of the Air Cooled. Many WB cars are getting bought up and exported to Countries outside USA. In the grand scheme of production these numbers are very small compared to NB 993s Production of 38,626 + Carrera 4 of 2,884 = 41,510 NB 993s.

_______________________________________________________

993 C4S = 6,948 World Production - $80K and up / over $100K excellent low mile examples "Haggerty Excellent = $120K (some outliers under $80K)

Haggerty Current Values

#1 Concours $156,000
Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."

#2 Excellent $120,000

#3 Good $89,500

#4 Fair $60,000

993 C2S = 3,714 World Production - $80K and up / over $100K excellent mile examples (some outliers under $80K)

Haggerty Current Values


#1 Concours $139,000
Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."

#2 Excellent $114,000

#3 Good $82,600

#4 Fair $59,600

993 Turbo = 5,937 World Production - Over $100K all day long

993 Turbo S = 345 World Production - Sales Private & Auction $350K - $450K

993 RS = 1,014 World Production - Sales Private & Auction $450K - $800K

993 GT2 Unicorn = 173 World Production RM Auction $2.4 Million Sale "Record for Porsche 993" and other 911 Air Cooled cars.

**Auction / Private Sales I know of and have seen final agreed price** based on cars that have sold.

mgerber

We are saying the same thing and I agree with you on the lower production number variants. Note that I stated "any 993" in my post and referenced the lower volume variants as holding value. Most of the references in this thread are about 993s in general. Even though I love my NB, I am under no illusion that it is a collectible.

Love your avatar BTW...

rg0115

Interesting, that so many people are concerned with the value of 993. I get it if you are trying to sell your car and hoping for a big payout, but for those of us that drive these cars and don't care about making them garage queens, it really doesn't matter. I have my dream car and won't let it go. I bought my car in January of 2016, probably at the top of the market, I was tired of seeing prices go up so I bit the bullet and pulled the trigger on a 96 C2 with 34K miles on it, nicely equipment with Aero kit 2. Perfect condition, I paid 60k for it and at the time was happy with the price. Had I bought the car 5 years ago, could have probably saved me 15-20k my guess. Anyway, I don't regret it, even with prices seeming to go down. I just want to drive it, enjoy it and not worry about what they are selling for. I guess on a good note, I still really want a wide body so maybe the bubble bursting will one day allow me to buy another one. I would love to have several of these cars, they are just so much fun to drive an make me smile everytime. What else can you ask for. I don't regret waiting for the market to cool off, its gamble I had to take.

Gbos1

Thanks No worries just like stating some facts around the 993s. Great cars that will never be again!

Gbos1

+1 and agree 100%. I bought my C4S from Porsche Classic with 28,600 miles. I paid a premium but it was my dream car to drive and enjoy! I purchased the best one I could find and that should be the #1 priority for anybody searching for a 993. Buy the best one you can afford even if you have to save a little longer to reach your dream!