Help choosing a DE tire?
01-18-2017, 07:52 AM
#47
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01-18-2017, 11:48 AM
#48
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The big difference between the high wear rating tires (300+) and the more focused tires around the 200 rating all the way to Hoosiers is how they communicate at the limit and how they act once you go over the limit. The higher the performance the more abrupt and sudden the loss of traction is (generally). This is one of the more compelling arguments for going for a lower performance tire, the slide tends to be slower coming and at a much lower speed on the higher wear rating tires, teaching better car control and understanding how the car reacts at the limit.
Once you have passed the grip potential of tires the wear rating is not going to help you, the big difference is going to be the speed you are travelling at if (when) you loose grip. This could be a matter of 5, 10 or even 15 mph faster speeds going from a 300 wear rating tire to a R-Comp. With these higher speeds comes higher risk and even just 5 mph faster could mean stopping before a wall or hitting it.
Once you have passed the grip potential of tires the wear rating is not going to help you, the big difference is going to be the speed you are travelling at if (when) you loose grip. This could be a matter of 5, 10 or even 15 mph faster speeds going from a 300 wear rating tire to a R-Comp. With these higher speeds comes higher risk and even just 5 mph faster could mean stopping before a wall or hitting it.
01-18-2017, 11:58 AM
#49
01-18-2017, 12:07 PM
#50
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The big difference between the high wear rating tires (300+) and the more focused tires around the 200 rating all the way to Hoosiers is how they communicate at the limit and how they act once you go over the limit. The higher the performance the more abrupt and sudden the loss of traction is (generally). This is one of the more compelling arguments for going for a lower performance tire, the slide tends to be slower coming and at a much lower speed on the higher wear rating tires, teaching better car control and understanding how the car reacts at the limit.
Once you have passed the grip potential of tires the wear rating is not going to help you, the big difference is going to be the speed you are travelling at if (when) you loose grip. This could be a matter of 5, 10 or even 15 mph faster speeds going from a 300 wear rating tire to a R-Comp. With these higher speeds comes higher risk and even just 5 mph faster could mean stopping before a wall or hitting it.
Once you have passed the grip potential of tires the wear rating is not going to help you, the big difference is going to be the speed you are travelling at if (when) you loose grip. This could be a matter of 5, 10 or even 15 mph faster speeds going from a 300 wear rating tire to a R-Comp. With these higher speeds comes higher risk and even just 5 mph faster could mean stopping before a wall or hitting it.
01-18-2017, 01:30 PM
#51
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On the street they felt like nothing special, but this is Miami where the roads are stupidly flat and straight and I drive like a grandma on the street, anyway. They just didn't inspire much confidence and I didn't even try to push them. They were replaced with about 20K miles in total. I do like the new RE-71R on the NC better, even on the street, which I was concerned with.
I also have PS/2 on 993 wheels which I occasionally used for the street tires in Boston. They were "meh" and I liked Toyo R1R that replaces/displaced them much better. Subsequent Dunlop Direzza Z1 StarSpecs that are on my 993 now, feel much grippier than PS/2 as well, but they feel different than R1R, which just spoke to me for some reason, especially in colder and wet weather.
All of the above could be a placebo effect stemming from my dislike of anything Michelin and I'm perfectly aware of that
Sorry for the long-winded detailing.
01-18-2017, 01:32 PM
#52
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Mark, additionally, whether you get PSS or Bridgestone, look at Costco to purchase They interchangeably run $70 off on a set of Michelins and Bridgestones and the prices are great especially considering $15 mounting and balancing.
01-18-2017, 01:47 PM
#53
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The big difference between the high wear rating tires (300+) and the more focused tires around the 200 rating all the way to Hoosiers is how they communicate at the limit and how they act once you go over the limit. The higher the performance the more abrupt and sudden the loss of traction is (generally). This is one of the more compelling arguments for going for a lower performance tire, the slide tends to be slower coming and at a much lower speed on the higher wear rating tires, teaching better car control and understanding how the car reacts at the limit.
Crappy tires don't tend to work well on autocross courses. I think autocross is a much more dynamic, compared to much faster but more static track work. Autocross is a constant change of direction where the tire doesn't have a chance to really set and decide whether to grip or slide, like it seem to on the track.
On our 70+ second courses, even Hoosiers tend to change grip level midway through the run. A softer sidewall tire made of brick dust gets greasy. On a track, where you have 10-12 turns and you go through the same turns for 20 minutes, when the tire gets greasy you, hopefully, lower the corner entry speed some and don't push the pedal as early and hard on track-out. At autocross, it bites you in the butt and you spin. Or you slow down so much that you can't learn anything. Also, because of the violent and non-static nature of turns, the soft tires bend their shoulder in a snap and the driver gets a nasty surprise in the middle of the turn. Finally, bad tires don't really communicate the breakaway at autocross. At least not enough for the novice to understand.
Now, there's a bunch of gradations between Hoosiers and 80K mile warranty Generals. For novices, I recommend good tires. By that, I mean the level of at least Hankook V12, but better the RS-3 and that bunch (ZII SS, R1R, AD008R, etc).
01-18-2017, 03:47 PM
#54
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Regarding MPSS, I had set on the 2011 Spyder and really liked them compared to the stock Pirellis.
As an aside, my two sons, who had never autocrossed before, got first and fifth in a large open club event, large number of guys who all they do is autocross, a number of the cars were trailered to the event. I did a couple of runs, I am not an autocross guy, but would say they perform better on the road than the autocross course. I think Mike explains that well in his posts.
Also, Michelin is phasing out the MPSS with the Pilot Sport 4 S early next year, only 19/20 sizes to start. Be careful if you order MPSS, a lot of older tires and/or mixed batch (BMW specific with non specific. etc.)
I am currently running Conti DW, there nice/quite/very good in the wet but honestly cannot keep up with the suspension (All RS with PSS10's). New tires...most likely RE-71R, I have heard nothing but good about them other than wear factor. If the new Pilot Sport 4 S became available in C4S OEM sizing I would go with them, but I doubt it, the current MPSS has not been available.
As an aside, my two sons, who had never autocrossed before, got first and fifth in a large open club event, large number of guys who all they do is autocross, a number of the cars were trailered to the event. I did a couple of runs, I am not an autocross guy, but would say they perform better on the road than the autocross course. I think Mike explains that well in his posts.
Also, Michelin is phasing out the MPSS with the Pilot Sport 4 S early next year, only 19/20 sizes to start. Be careful if you order MPSS, a lot of older tires and/or mixed batch (BMW specific with non specific. etc.)
I am currently running Conti DW, there nice/quite/very good in the wet but honestly cannot keep up with the suspension (All RS with PSS10's). New tires...most likely RE-71R, I have heard nothing but good about them other than wear factor. If the new Pilot Sport 4 S became available in C4S OEM sizing I would go with them, but I doubt it, the current MPSS has not been available.
01-18-2017, 03:55 PM
#55
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Bob, some complain about RE-71R noise. To me, it's not a factor, especially on a convertible, nor do I find them really noisier than old PSS, but that's the other negative I've heard.
01-18-2017, 05:57 PM
#57
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They came on my NC and were 2 years old with under 10K miles. They just didn't have the ultimate grip I needed for occasionally autocrossing that car. They wouldn't get greasy, per say, but you just sit there and feel the car slide from under you. And go: "if I only had a mode grip, this platform can do a lot of things". In other words, they had an absolute cliff drop-off point where the car would start sliding (not breaking away, but sliding progressively). But that point was way earlier than good autocross street tires I've experienced and that cost less than PSS. This is on short courses in nearly perfect upper 70s weather, so no external detriments there. Touching them and digging nail into them actually confirmed that the thread as harder and less sticky than better tires. unscientific, I know
On the street they felt like nothing special, but this is Miami where the roads are stupidly flat and straight and I drive like a grandma on the street, anyway. They just didn't inspire much confidence and I didn't even try to push them. They were replaced with about 20K miles in total. I do like the new RE-71R on the NC better, even on the street, which I was concerned with.
I also have PS/2 on 993 wheels which I occasionally used for the street tires in Boston. They were "meh" and I liked Toyo R1R that replaces/displaced them much better. Subsequent Dunlop Direzza Z1 StarSpecs that are on my 993 now, feel much grippier than PS/2 as well, but they feel different than R1R, which just spoke to me for some reason, especially in colder and wet weather.
All of the above could be a placebo effect stemming from my dislike of anything Michelin and I'm perfectly aware of that Sorry for the long-winded detailing.
On the street they felt like nothing special, but this is Miami where the roads are stupidly flat and straight and I drive like a grandma on the street, anyway. They just didn't inspire much confidence and I didn't even try to push them. They were replaced with about 20K miles in total. I do like the new RE-71R on the NC better, even on the street, which I was concerned with.
I also have PS/2 on 993 wheels which I occasionally used for the street tires in Boston. They were "meh" and I liked Toyo R1R that replaces/displaced them much better. Subsequent Dunlop Direzza Z1 StarSpecs that are on my 993 now, feel much grippier than PS/2 as well, but they feel different than R1R, which just spoke to me for some reason, especially in colder and wet weather.
All of the above could be a placebo effect stemming from my dislike of anything Michelin and I'm perfectly aware of that
Sorry for the long-winded detailing.What designation should I be looking for with regards to the 993? I see 99Y this or 95Y that and have no idea what they mean.
01-18-2017, 06:19 PM
#58
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The big difference between the high wear rating tires (300+) and the more focused tires around the 200 rating all the way to Hoosiers is how they communicate at the limit and how they act once you go over the limit. The higher the performance the more abrupt and sudden the loss of traction is (generally). This is one of the more compelling arguments for going for a lower performance tire, the slide tends to be slower coming and at a much lower speed on the higher wear rating tires, teaching better car control and understanding how the car reacts at the limit.
Once you have passed the grip potential of tires the wear rating is not going to help you, the big difference is going to be the speed you are travelling at if (when) you loose grip. This could be a matter of 5, 10 or even 15 mph faster speeds going from a 300 wear rating tire to a R-Comp. With these higher speeds comes higher risk and even just 5 mph faster could mean stopping before a wall or hitting it.
Once you have passed the grip potential of tires the wear rating is not going to help you, the big difference is going to be the speed you are travelling at if (when) you loose grip. This could be a matter of 5, 10 or even 15 mph faster speeds going from a 300 wear rating tire to a R-Comp. With these higher speeds comes higher risk and even just 5 mph faster could mean stopping before a wall or hitting it.
01-18-2017, 06:23 PM
#59
Banned
Y etc is the speed rating
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=35
weight is essentially a non-issue, 95 is 1521 pounds per tire. Most high quality tires will be either W or Y, even my all season Michelin Pilot Sport AS/3 are rated Y (186 MPH)
What size tires are you looking at?
01-18-2017, 06:23 PM
#60
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Mark, I;d compare the prices with $70 off that Costco provides, no shipping charge (that might be offset by taxes, though, but, more importantly, only $15 per tire install and balance by Costco. Flats are also covered (ironically, GF just got a screw into thread today, went to Costco, waited an hour till they got the car in, turned out this was just a screw head that didn't puncture through).
There's also a trick, apparently, where one doesn't even need a Costco membership, just Costco gift card to get in and buy stuff from them.
Regarding designations - I completely disregard letters and numbers for speed and load rating. Just like I disregard the two letters like AA that stand for traction and temperature, IIRC.
There's also a trick, apparently, where one doesn't even need a Costco membership, just Costco gift card to get in and buy stuff from them.
Regarding designations - I completely disregard letters and numbers for speed and load rating. Just like I disregard the two letters like AA that stand for traction and temperature, IIRC.
